Wind Turbine application, THROWN OUT!

[The Rodmiester]

Great News, Highland Council throws out a Planning application for building seventeen Wind Turbines 126.5m high at Clach Liath near Ben Wyvis.

[BlackPanther]

Great news indeed I never liked the idea of windfarms on Wyvis. There are enough of these monstrosities all over the area. Silly question, but is it the final decision?

[whiteburn]

But will the numpties in the big toon over-rule the decision and give it the go ahead exactly like they've done with every other major wind farm that's been rejected by the local councils, so far none have been stopped.

SADLY I EXPECT APPROVAL HAS ONLY BEEN DELAYED

[Circles]

Great to protect the wilderness but...can't build new nuclear plants as too dangerous, can't build new coal as too dirty and global warming, can't build wind farms despite them being green as they obstruct my view of a hill, I'm sure solar panels would get the same response if there was any sun, I'm sure new dams would also get the community up in arms...
I'm being deliberately provocative here but just curious as what the correct approach is to replace aging dirty power generation schemes with greener options? Lot's of people more than happy to say what you shouldn't be allowed to do (usually anything that it different to how things are now i.e. change)...
What should government being doing to meet the communities expectation to address global warming concerns while ensuring necessary capacity?
Ideas?

[rabthecairnterrier]

Great to protect the wilderness but...can't build new nuclear plants as too dangerous, can't build new coal as too dirty and global warming, can't build wind farms despite them being green as they obstruct my view of a hill, I'm sure solar panels would get the same response if there was any sun, I'm sure new dams would also get the community up in arms...
I'm being deliberately provocative here but just curious as what the correct approach is to replace aging dirty power generation schemes with greener options? Lot's of people more than happy to say what you shouldn't be allowed to do (usually anything that it different to how things are now i.e. change)...
What should government being doing to meet the communities expectation to address global warming concerns while ensuring necessary capacity?
Ideas?

Sorry to disappoint you Circles but there are no 'greener options' to maintaining a grid supply as we know it. Due to the intermittent and unpredictable nature of the wind windfarms cannot provide baseload current to the grid and - obviously - can't respond to demand either. If you don't like nuclear (equals large amounts of toxic waste) and don't like fossil fuels (equals large amounts of climate-wrecking CO2) the only solution is to restrict electricity use to those rare occasions when the wind happens to be blowing at the right speed at the right time, which, a couple of weeks ago, was at 2am in the morning. Tough, but true. Have a look at www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk

[Circles]

Power generated by wind isn't stored? it's just use it or lose it?
So what was the suggestion we should be doing rather than wind?
I have no view or preference except to make the observation that no matter what you do, someone generally has a reason why you can't and often without proposing a suitable alternative
I'll traet the 2am only use of electricity suggestion as tounge in cheek and being constructive and look at this in terms of power companies installing smart meters that enable them to regulate supply (in Australia these are being rolled out so that supply can be limited in peak times if needed...they could effectively turn your TV or air conditioner off on a summers evening)
It's another alternative but one that everyone will scream that you can't do...without offering an suitable alternative

[IainG]

Power generated by wind isn't stored?

It's the main problem with any power generation. Hydro goes someway to addressing it, i.e pump it up a hill when there's excess power in the grid, let it flow downhill through turbines when you need it.

The wind and hydro combination sounds like an almost ideal solution, or of course, cut demand.

[rabthecairnterrier]

Power generated by wind isn't stored? it's just use it or lose it?
So what was the suggestion we should be doing rather than wind?
I have no view or preference except to make the observation that no matter what you do, someone generally has a reason why you can't and often without proposing a suitable alternative
I'll traet the 2am only use of electricity suggestion as tounge in cheek and being constructive and look at this in terms of power companies installing smart meters that enable them to regulate supply (in Australia these are being rolled out so that supply can be limited in peak times if needed...they could effectively turn your TV or air conditioner off on a summers evening)
It's another alternative but one that everyone will scream that you can't do...without offering an suitable alternative

Circles, you misunderstand me - I wasn't proposing an alternative, merely pointing out that if you want to maintain a grid supply as we have at present there isn't an 'alternative' to fossil fuel or nuclear. Hobson's choice.

[Rudolph]

Sorry to disappoint you Circles but there are no 'greener options' to maintaining a grid supply as we know it.

There are greener options but they are not perfect. The trick is to find (and agree on) the best balance of conventional fossil fuel and nuclear with 'constant' power renewables (tidal, hydro and wave) providing a reliable base supply and use wind and solar to reduce the fossil fuel usage as much as possible. Waiting for the perfect answer will result iin us doing nothing - which is the worst reponse of all.

I think that is what you say in your second post above

Ultimately we need new technology to save us - to my mind that will only come with fusion to make electric power and the hydrogen economy to make it portable and storable. Heaven help us if we've used all our carbon feedstocks by then as we'll have no raw materials for the 'plastics' which will be essential.

[rabthecairnterrier]

Power generated by wind isn't stored?

It's the main problem with any power generation. Hydro goes someway to addressing it, i.e pump it up a hill when there's excess power in the grid, let it flow downhill through turbines when you need it.

The wind and hydro combination sounds like an almost ideal solution, or of course, cut demand.

Pumped storage typically consumes around 30% more electricity than it generates. Cruachan, the largest of two such schemes in Scotland, is used to deal with sudden short term fluctuations in peak demand and can operate for 22 hours maximum before exhausting its water supply. Dinorwig in wales, the largest in these islands (at 1,728 MW) runs out of juice in six hours.

One authority has calculated that - with a wind based generating system - we would need 36 large capacity pumped storage schemes to have a sporting chance of maintaining supply over a couple of days with light or no winds. The 600 MW scheme recently consented for Coire Ghlas above L. Lochy is coming in at £800 million; multiply that by more than 30, and add in the cost of the necessary windfarms and you end up with a seriously scary figure. Just think what that will do to your electricity bill.

[heatheronthehills]

...or we could just try to use a bit less energy.....

[Chic]

I'm delighted by this news on 1 hand but on the other a bit gutted due to my work supplying steel for them

[rabthecairnterrier]

...or we could just try to use a bit less energy.....

We can, but it will not deal with the basic problem. Modern society is still dependent on a reliable grid supply which wind will not - because it cannot - provide. Whichever way you look at it it's stilll Hobson's choice - nuclear waste or CO2. It's either that or societal collapse.

[mrssanta]

we're aaaallll dooooomed!
seriously though, what about tidal power? there are developments on this in the Sound of Islay and the Pentland Firth, the Islay one certainly has community support and nobody could say tide is not predictable and reliable!

[Gordie12]

Great News, Highland Council throws out a Planning application for building seventeen Wind Turbines 126.5m high at Clach Liath near Ben Wyvis.

Now look what you've done!!!!