walkhighlands

This forum is for general discussion about walking and scrambling... If writing a report or sharing your experiences from a route, please use the other boards.

Col vs Bealach

Col vs Bealach


Postby ed_hill » Tue May 07, 2013 8:32 pm

Hi,

Could anyone explain to me the difference between a col and a bealach? or are they much the same?

cheers!
ed_hill
Munro compleatist
 
Posts: 112
Munros:236   Corbetts:18
Fionas:3   
Sub 2000:5   
Islands:7
Joined: Aug 24, 2012

Re: Col vs Bealach

Postby coachmacca » Tue May 07, 2013 9:02 pm

I cant wait to see this answer.. I've been wondering too..! According to Tinterweb they are both a "pass" but Bealach is Gaelic and Col from the French.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_pass
User avatar
coachmacca
Stravaiging
 
Posts: 501
Munros:39   Corbetts:7
Fionas:5   Donalds:1
Sub 2000:3   Hewitts:2
Wainwrights:3   
Joined: Jul 8, 2012
Location: Glasgow

Re: Col vs Bealach

Postby Circles » Wed May 08, 2013 8:41 am

and we call them a saddle in Oz
User avatar
Circles
Hill Bagger
 
Posts: 244
Munros:6   
Sub 2000:1   Hewitts:27
Wainwrights:90   
Joined: Jun 24, 2012
Location: London :(

Re: Col vs Bealach

Postby Border Reiver » Wed May 08, 2013 9:17 am

The references to bealach in Scotland seem to indiacate passes that are or were used by people and animals to cross through mountains. A col is often higher, considerably steeper and often narrow - certainly not used by humans and cattle to pass through mountains.
User avatar
Border Reiver
Wanderer
 
Posts: 1509
Munros:202   Corbetts:7
Fionas:3   Donalds:1
Sub 2000:2   Hewitts:62
Wainwrights:69   Islands:33
Joined: Feb 18, 2011
Location: North East England

Re: Col vs Bealach

Postby jmarkb » Wed May 08, 2013 12:34 pm

Border Reiver wrote:The references to bealach in Scotland seem to indiacate passes that are or were used by people and animals to cross through mountains. A col is often higher, considerably steeper and often narrow - certainly not used by humans and cattle to pass through mountains.


Although bealach can have a wider sense in Gaelic implying human transit (as road, gateway, passage) I'm not sure this is the case: there are too many bealachs, including in places such as the Cuillin ridge which make no sense as traditional routes through the mountains. The word col is English, imported into the language from French by the Victorians, and doesn't occur in anywhere on a Scottish (or English) map that I can think of, except as a geological term in connection with the Parallel Roads around Glen Roy.
User avatar
jmarkb
Mountaineer
 
Posts: 5857
Munros:246   Corbetts:105
Fionas:91   Donalds:32
Sub 2000:46   
Joined: Oct 28, 2011
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Col vs Bealach

Postby NickyRannoch » Wed May 08, 2013 1:01 pm

Pretty much what jmarkb says.

For the purposes of topography in Scotland there is no such thing as a col, or at least it occurs extremely rarely.

Bealach can mean any gap, pass, low point between hills. So whilst all cols are bealachs, not all bealachs are cols :D It also has a wider meaning of a way or passage or a road. For something that is specifically a high mountain pass we also have the word lairig.

Also, can we all stop saying bee-lach :wink:
User avatar
NickyRannoch
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 1739
Munros:224   Corbetts:3
Fionas:4   Donalds:1
Sub 2000:9   
Islands:17
Joined: Aug 21, 2009
Location: Carse of Gowrie, Perthshire

Re: Col vs Bealach

Postby Circles » Wed May 08, 2013 1:40 pm

Also, can we all stop saying bee-lach

Can you tell u show to pronounce it foe-net-ik-a-lee?
User avatar
Circles
Hill Bagger
 
Posts: 244
Munros:6   
Sub 2000:1   Hewitts:27
Wainwrights:90   
Joined: Jun 24, 2012
Location: London :(

Re: Col vs Bealach

Postby NickyRannoch » Wed May 08, 2013 1:52 pm

Circles wrote:
Also, can we all stop saying bee-lach

Can you tell u show to pronounce it foe-net-ik-a-lee?


Let me state that i'm not one of these pub/hill bores who insists on the absolute correct pronounciation and some of my gaelic attempts will sound hilarious/infuriating to the ear of a native speaker but bealach is one that interferes with my happiness :lol:

soft b followed by the y in yes or yell and then either the e in hell or in the a in car - however you would pronounce dearg.

b-yell-luch :thumbup:
User avatar
NickyRannoch
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 1739
Munros:224   Corbetts:3
Fionas:4   Donalds:1
Sub 2000:9   
Islands:17
Joined: Aug 21, 2009
Location: Carse of Gowrie, Perthshire

Re: Col vs Bealach

Postby scoob999 » Wed May 08, 2013 4:58 pm

User avatar
scoob999
Munro compleatist
 
Posts: 1708
Munros:143   Corbetts:222
Fionas:151   Donalds:89+52
Sub 2000:145   Hewitts:27
Wainwrights:7   Islands:22
Joined: Aug 8, 2011
Location: Birnam/Dunkeld. i think?

Re: Col vs Bealach

Postby malky_c » Wed May 08, 2013 5:55 pm

It is very similar to the welsh 'bwlch'. 'Mam' is also much used in Gaelic, and you will find 'hause' in Cumberland. I've often used 'saddle' too, but I don't think it appears in any place names in the UK.

Similar background to cwm/comb/corrie/cirque, when referring to a hanging valley.
User avatar
malky_c
 
Posts: 6342
Munros:282   Corbetts:222
Fionas:219   Donalds:80+37
Sub 2000:315   Hewitts:281
Wainwrights:140   Islands:39
Joined: Nov 22, 2009
Location: Glasgow/Inverness

Re: Col vs Bealach

Postby ed_hill » Wed May 08, 2013 6:37 pm

cheers for the replies - an interesting insight into the mountain pass!
ed_hill
Munro compleatist
 
Posts: 112
Munros:236   Corbetts:18
Fionas:3   
Sub 2000:5   
Islands:7
Joined: Aug 24, 2012

Re: Col vs Bealach

Postby jmarkb » Thu May 09, 2013 8:01 am

malky_c wrote: I've often used 'saddle' too, but I don't think it appears in any place names in the UK.


I can only think of two: between Goat Fell and Cir Mhor on Arran, and between Cairngorm and Bynack More, and I would guess they are not really traditional local names.
User avatar
jmarkb
Mountaineer
 
Posts: 5857
Munros:246   Corbetts:105
Fionas:91   Donalds:32
Sub 2000:46   
Joined: Oct 28, 2011
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Col vs Bealach

Postby footix2 » Thu May 09, 2013 4:02 pm

We say col a lot in Cumbria (well I do anyway). Hause is very common on the maps, but doesn't really get used a lot in speech unless specifically naming the hause. Is it pronounced "house" btw. I always say haws, which is blatantly wrong I realise :D
footix2
Munro compleatist
 
Posts: 53
Hewitts:31
Wainwrights:61   
Joined: Mar 5, 2012

Re: Col vs Bealach

Postby Slogger » Thu May 09, 2013 6:28 pm

footix2 wrote:We say col a lot in Cumbria (well I do anyway). Hause is very common on the maps, but doesn't really get used a lot in speech unless specifically naming the hause. Is it pronounced "house" btw. I always say haws, which is blatantly wrong I realise :D


Hause as far as I know is pronounced House. There are also places like on some maps Esk Hawes, pronounced as in Haweswater.
The is at least one Col mentioned on OS maps in Cumbria - Lingmell Col.
Dave.
User avatar
Slogger
Munro compleatist
 
Posts: 1246
Munros:146   
Sub 2000:1   Hewitts:125
Wainwrights:141   
Joined: May 13, 2010
Location: Lancashire




Can you help support Walkhighlands?


Our forum is free from adverts - your generosity keeps it running.
Can you help support Walkhighlands and this community by donating by direct debit?



Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jmarkb and 13 guests