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High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?


Postby Highland scrambler » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:00 am

Many of my all time favourite days out have involved great walking in the Scottish mountains - but with the added zest of a good, tough scramble at some point during the day.
Some of these occasions have involved moments of potential disaster - clinging to damp, precipitous rock with nothing between you and the valley floor 1,500' below. Good example ? Where better than Aonach Eagach !
The feeling at those moments has a different quality compared to how ive felt the few times I have been actual climbing. The reason is obvious : in scrambling there is no safety net! No rope, no comforting harness.
So - is scrambling more dangerous than climbing - and how do you calibrate the degree of risk. It's easy to say "only climb within your limits" but it only takes an attempt on the wrong route, or a slight stumble on a rock to go from 'perfect day' to 'total nightmare'.
Or is this just part of why we love it?
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Re: High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

Postby brpro26 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:25 am

When your up in Skye and not feeling too great about looking down I was wondering what the cross-over point is between your Life Insurance policy paying out and them saying sorry your not covered that was rock climbing and you didn't declare that to us....
Sometimes when you take time to reflect on a hard scramble you conclude....that was stupid never again..but you do.
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Re: High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

Postby Milesy » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:43 am

Why did you post this exact same thread as you did on UKC? You already got quite a lot of responses.
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Re: High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

Postby electricfly » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:44 am

Milesy wrote:Why did you post this exact same thread as you did on UKC? You already got quite a lot of responses.


To gain a more balanced perspective perhaps? I'd imagine the UKC thread was responded mostly by climbers rather than scramblers who occasionally climb.

Or does UKC take presidence over all outdoor forums? :roll:
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Re: High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

Postby Kevin29035 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:40 pm

electricfly wrote:
Milesy wrote:Why did you post this exact same thread as you did on UKC? You already got quite a lot of responses.


To gain a more balanced perspective perhaps? I'd imagine the UKC thread was responded mostly by climbers rather than scramblers who occasionally climb.

Or does UKC take presidence over all outdoor forums? :roll:

UKc is full of old miserable gits with big opinions. I think to think WH is a bit more laid back :-)
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Re: High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

Postby Milesy » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:12 pm

electricfly wrote:
Milesy wrote:Why did you post this exact same thread as you did on UKC? You already got quite a lot of responses.


To gain a more balanced perspective perhaps? I'd imagine the UKC thread was responded mostly by climbers rather than scramblers who occasionally climb.

Or does UKC take presidence over all outdoor forums? :roll:


You imagine wrong then.

No but it just seems strange to post the same thing after you have already had a discussion on it, unless there is another motive which hasn't shown yet...
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Re: High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

Postby electricfly » Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:27 pm

Milesy wrote:You imagine wrong then.


Sorry but your powers of righteousness have no jurisdiction in my imagination.
:lol:

Maybe best to leave the forum policing to the WH administrators too eh? :wink:
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Re: High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

Postby Milesy » Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:29 pm

Away and boil your heid. You think we are in school or something? :roll:
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Re: High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

Postby electricfly » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:30 pm

If you could just allow the non UKC forum users to discuss the topic now, that would be lovely thanks Milesy.
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Re: High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

Postby robo » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:36 pm

I personally think that high altitude scrambling is more dangerous than climbing. Most people gain experience in climbing by learning from others and climbing clubs and in general go up much used and analysed routes. Most scrambles will be at the end of an intermediate to long walk by tired hill walkers who may or may not have experience of scrambling whether it be up scree or rock face, wet or dry with or without moss/lichen, will they have they the correct boots?, is the backpack too prominent?, can they store the walking poles etc. Conclusion for me, climbers are more focused with a better idea of what is ahead and carry the gear to deal with a range of possibilities. Walkers are usually out for a longer day with many different surfaces, moss, grass, heather, peat hags, scree, rocks, boulders etc and no way to carry specific gear to tackle all these as it would be too heavy so a compromise is always accepted and therefore an element of risk. So both are not without risk, choose your route according to experience and ability and when that runs out lean on others and learn from their experience. If you are relying on Insurance companies to pay out then be honest and accept the cost of covering the risk.
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Re: High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

Postby Kevin29035 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:05 pm

robo wrote:I personally think that high altitude scrambling is more dangerous than climbing. Most people gain experience in climbing by learning from others and climbing clubs and in general go up much used and analysed routes. Most scrambles will be at the end of an intermediate to long walk by tired hill walkers who may or may not have experience of scrambling whether it be up scree or rock face, wet or dry with or without moss/lichen, will they have they the correct boots?, is the backpack too prominent?, can they store the walking poles etc. Conclusion for me, climbers are more focused with a better idea of what is ahead and carry the gear to deal with a range of possibilities. Walkers are usually out for a longer day with many different surfaces, moss, grass, heather, peat hags, scree, rocks, boulders etc and no way to carry specific gear to tackle all these as it would be too heavy so a compromise is always accepted and therefore an element of risk. So both are not without risk, choose your route according to experience and ability and when that runs out lean on others and learn from their experience. If you are relying on Insurance companies to pay out then be honest and accept the cost of covering the risk.

I think the conclusion to your answer, as correct as you are, is "how long is a piece of string". It can be more dangerous - but not in all instances.
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Re: High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

Postby rocket-ron » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:39 pm

Eh to me they are 2 sepperate things scrambling and climbing. Also different people deal with exposure diferent. This is quite a daft question
It seams you are just posting your own websites on forum to get hits
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Re: High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

Postby mgmt! » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:28 pm

rocket-ron wrote:Eh to me they are 2 sepperate things scrambling and climbing. Also different people deal with exposure diferent. This is quite a daft question
It seams you are just posting your own websites on forum to get hits


i thought it was just me ! a first post, a link to a personal website, wow look at me scrambling the aonach eagach ( with a guide !! ) then you find the question has been posted on a climbing website too ? self promotion indeed.

as for the question ? it all depends on the individual taking part and the route they are attempting, and his or hers experience. although i think its a fine line between scrambling and climbing, let alone "high exposure scrambling " :roll:
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Re: High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

Postby Milesy » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:50 pm

Phew. Glad I am not the only one to pick up on it eh!

Scrambling is indeed relative! My friend thought the tarmachan ridge as pretty high end scrambling and it was very close to their comfort level, where as to me a scramble is one of the big ridges on Ben Nevis, or The Buachaille.
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Re: High exposure scrambling : more dangerous than climbing?

Postby stevesey » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:36 pm

RTC wrote:I must be missing something. I can't see a link to a personal website.

I'm pretty sure there was one initially - but it vanished!
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