walkhighlands

This forum is for general discussion about walking and scrambling... If writing a report or sharing your experiences from a route, please use the other boards.

Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn't?

Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn't?


Postby kld85 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:43 pm

Twice recently I have been involved in conversations with people who were planning a walk that sounded way beyond what I though was a good idea...
The most recent was this weekend when heading up Ben Narnain, we wandered up the path towards the Cobbler ( along with the rest of the world it seemed!!!). We passed a group who were asking each other where they were going. We pointed out the Cobbler, which was pretty hard to miss by that point and they struck up a conversation. One of the group was struggling in the heat wanted to know if she was almost there as she didn't think she could do much more.
Then she announced that she had to keep going as she was going to climb Nevis next weekend. We were pretty surprised at this given how she was coping with the path she was on. We gave some suggestions about being safe, how much longer/higher etc etc doin Nevis would be.

Was wondering of others had had similar conversations and if so how they have responded. Much as I am no expert it was a worrying conversation!
kld85
Mountaineer
 
Posts: 2
Munros:4   
Sub 2000:7   
Joined: Dec 30, 2013

Re: Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn

Postby Border Reiver » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:57 pm

I try to give other people as much information as I can and leave the decision making to them. Coming down off The Ben one March day, I met 3 guys at the snow line (Red Burn) & they questioned me about conditions higher up & happened to mention that they only had one ice axe and no crampons between the, I just told them that I'd enjoyed the walk but was very glad that I had my axe and crampons as it was very icy further up the path. I also mentioned that there was no-one else up there at all. After 10 mins or so I looked back and saw them coming back down....their decision, not mine.
User avatar
Border Reiver
Wanderer
 
Posts: 1509
Munros:202   Corbetts:7
Fionas:3   Donalds:1
Sub 2000:2   Hewitts:62
Wainwrights:69   Islands:33
Joined: Feb 18, 2011
Location: North East England

Re: Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn

Postby OpenC » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:08 pm

I can't help myself, I turn into a proper intolerable Old Man Of The Mountains when it comes to this sort of thing. I would rather be told to bugger off and mind my own business than ever find myself watching the news and reading about somebody getting into difficulties who I didn't say anything to.

I try to couch it like Border Reiver, as a description of conditions - but the problem is, of course, that a lot of people on the more popular mountains haven't had the experience to make sensible decisions based on what you're telling them. I usually manage not to say anything unless asked, but I posted a story a while back about being involved with the rescue of somebody with hypothermia on Ben Nevis last August or thereabouts, and running into a guy dressed as a chicken carrying a charity bucket just before I got down. I tried my best to reason with him (wind was blowing hard, rain was falling which wasn't so cold at 200m but was absolutely icy near the top). He told me to bugger off and mind my own business. To the best of my knowledge, the chicken got down OK but I would do it again. I did manage to turn around one girl coming up from Esk Hause who was about to attempt a hard frozen snow Calf Cove up to Scafell ridge in wellies. Unbelievable :)
User avatar
OpenC
Munro compleatist
 
Posts: 454
Munros:93   
Donalds:2
Sub 2000:1   Hewitts:86
Wainwrights:132   
Joined: Aug 4, 2013
Location: Northumberland

Re: Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn

Postby rockhopper » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:51 pm

I'm with Border Reiver on this one. Keep things factual. If asked, I'm fine with passing on facts and, if on the way down, explaining how I found conditions further up, but would then leave it for others to decide. Given that I don't know them and/or their abilities, I'd never presume to be able to advise them of what they should/shouldn't do (being far from perfect myself !) - cheers :)
User avatar
rockhopper
 
Posts: 7446
Munros:282   Corbetts:222
Fionas:136   Donalds:89+20
Sub 2000:16   Hewitts:2
Wainwrights:3   Islands:20
Joined: Jun 1, 2009
Location: Glasgow

Re: Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn

Postby Lightfoot2017 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:07 pm

The night before his wedding to wife No. 2, I told my older brother he was off his nut to tie the knot again. Does that count? :?

For the record, their marriage lasted about 2 yrs. :lol:
User avatar
Lightfoot2017
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 863
Munros:182   
Fionas:1   
Joined: Jun 28, 2012
Location: Dunfermline

Re: Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn

Postby RyanfaeScotland » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:36 pm

rockhopper wrote:I'm with Border Reiver on this one. Keep things factual. If asked, I'm fine with passing on facts and, if on the way down, explaining how I found conditions further up, but would then leave it for others to decide. Given that I don't know them and/or their abilities, I'd never presume to be able to advise them of what they should/shouldn't do (being far from perfect myself !) - cheers :)


See I reckon you can get away with opinions as well but the big thing is how they are presented.

'You won't manage without an ice axe' vs 'You'd be an idiot to proceed with out an ice axe' vs 'I wouldn't go on without an ice axe' sorta thing.
User avatar
RyanfaeScotland
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 499
Munros:8   Corbetts:1
Fionas:1   
Sub 2000:4   
Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Re: Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn

Postby Caberfeidh » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:30 am

I saw a Tourist Information Centre bloke once save a bunch of tourists from dying in a rainstorm on Ben Nevis. It was a truly foul day, the cloud base was scraping the chimney-pots of Fort Bill, the gale was howling up the street, gathering up sheets of rain and lashing them down on anyone foolish enough to be out in it. It was like being hosed down by the fire brigade. Higher up it would likely be snowing. In the tourist info place, a gaggle of Italian tourists were questioning the bloke: "Where is Ben Nevis? How do we get to the top? How long will it take us?" He took one look at their town shoes, high heels, suits, skirts, mackintoshes and umbrellas. In an authoritative tone, and with a deadpan expression, he simply said "It's shut." They accepted this, and moved off to see some old castle instead...
Late one winter afternoon, a friend and I were coming along the ridge from Derry Cairngorm after a day of ice-climbing. On our way down Carn Crom as the gloaming came on, we met a group of student age girls led by a middle aged bloke on their way up. They asked us how long to Derry Cairngorm. The snow was thigh-deep, we were struggling through it and we were headed down. I was about to make some ill-advised outburst when my friend tactfully suggested that they might want to change plans to do only the summit of Carn Crom, as Derry was a long way, the drifts were deep and tiring, and it was getting late in the day. They took this well and we saw them later, as they arrived back at Bob Scott's, exhausted. I can't help thinking the bloke leading them was a dunderheid though...
User avatar
Caberfeidh
Stravaiging
 
Posts: 8381
Joined: Feb 5, 2009

Re: Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn

Postby NickyRannoch » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:44 pm

Caberfeidh wrote:Late one winter afternoon, a friend and I were coming along the ridge from Derry Cairngorm after a day of ice-climbing. On our way down Carn Crom as the gloaming came on, we met a group of student age girls led by a middle aged bloke on their way up. They asked us how long to Derry Cairngorm. The snow was thigh-deep, we were struggling through it and we were headed down. I was about to make some ill-advised outburst when my friend tactfully suggested that they might want to change plans to do only the summit of Carn Crom, as Derry was a long way, the drifts were deep and tiring, and it was getting late in the day. They took this well and we saw them later, as they arrived back at Bob Scott's, exhausted. I can't help thinking the bloke leading them was a dunderheid though...


He maybe wasnt as daft as you think, benighted and snow holing with a group of female students may have been the plan all along.
User avatar
NickyRannoch
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 1741
Munros:224   Corbetts:3
Fionas:4   Donalds:1
Sub 2000:9   
Islands:17
Joined: Aug 21, 2009
Location: Carse of Gowrie, Perthshire

Re: Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn

Postby Porrige Pot » Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:29 pm

NickyRannoch wrote:...He maybe wasnt as daft as you think, benighted and snow holing with a group of female students may have been the plan all along.


nice work if you can get it...!
Porrige Pot
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Jun 30, 2012

Re: Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn

Postby raykilhams » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:00 am

I remember while walking the Pennine way and stopping for a coffee with the wife , a group of young lads led by two older guys came up to us , one of the older guys asked us where we were and how many miles had they walked since leaving Edale , I showed them on their map that we were at snake pass and had only walked 9 miles , the whole party looked totally dejected , they thought they had walked at least 15 miles . Never mind they only had another 230 miles to go and hopefully their map reading skills would have improved.
I find that sometimes people will asked for advice and at times we will too , we find that most people are friendly , it's only the odd person that takes offence , but then some people just won't be told.
raykilhams
Mountaineer
 
Posts: 166
Munros:13   Corbetts:5
Fionas:4   Donalds:2
Sub 2000:14   Hewitts:11
Wainwrights:9   
Joined: Sep 12, 2011
Location: Forfar

Re: Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn

Postby IamAJMiller » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:43 am

There was a thread going on this same topic a while back with a lot of interesting points:

http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29620&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

But very recently (Sunday) I had an experience where I really did have to insist that I change someone's plans for them. I'd parked at Linn of Dee, cycled to White Bridge, dumped my bike and walked the round of Beinn Bhrotain, Mondah Mor, Angel's Peak, Carn Toul and the Devils Point. Then down to Corrour Bothy and walked back to White Bridge. It was midway on this section that I came across a sight I'd never seen before: two women out in the wilderness, one of them without any shoes or boots on! All she had was little sports ankle socks on and as a result was caked in mud, with her ankles and feet cut to ribbons. She'd lost them in a bog a few miles back and couldn't retrieve them.

When I started speaking to them they said their plan was the Derry Loop, starting and ending in Linn of Dee, they were only about 8kms in with another 15kms to go, it was after 4pm and they were moving insanely slowly (obviously) and were already exhausted. The more I got out of them the more I realised that even ignoring the missing shoes they were quite ill equipped for the sort of terrain they were getting themselves into. They told me they had no maps, no torches and it didn't look like their packs would've contained what they'd need to complete their walk without incident. The lady WITH shoes had done the route before was very keen to continue, so was driving the lady WITHOUT the shoes pretty hard as I think she was aware the day was getting on. However she didn't realise just how far they still had to go, I got the impression they were thinking they only had a few miles left.

I took out my map, showed them where they were and where they still had to go, indicating that it was pretty rough mountain territory for someone with shoes, let alone someone without! The leader was still undecided and I could see that she wanted to go on but her shoeless friend was unsure. So being quite authoritative I pretty much insisted that their only option at this point was to turn back as they'd definitely be walking out in the dark, so at least it would be on a path they already knew having spent the last 4/5 hours walking it!

Now I may have come across as a know-it-all d**k, however I was genuinely concerned for the safety of the women without shoes on. It would've taken very little for her to break an ankle in that sort of ground. After turning them round I went off and kept checking that they were following me, and they were, albeit very slowly. So I put on the pace, got to my bike and belted back to Linn of Dee to get a mobile reception (this took me about 90mins WITH shoes, moving fast and using a bike). Once I got phone reception I called 101 non emergency police and told them about the incident, and that while they weren't in immediate peril, they weren't in the greatest of situations and someone should be aware of where they were. They called me later on, after 9pm, to say that Ballatar Police Mountain Rescue had picked them up near White Bridge safely, thanking me for my call.

This was the first time I've ever put the pressure on someone to change their plans, but I genuinely felt they were walking themselves into danger and without a map could've easily taken a wrong turn and ended up in the Larig Ghru or somewhere else they didn't want to be. An extreme case, but one worth sharing I think.
User avatar
IamAJMiller
Munro compleatist
 
Posts: 739
Munros:13   Corbetts:31
Fionas:2   Donalds:3
Sub 2000:18   Hewitts:51
Wainwrights:78   
Joined: May 17, 2010
Location: Perthshire

Re: Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn

Postby RyanfaeScotland » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:14 am

IamAJMiller wrote:There was a thread going on this same topic a while back with a lot of interesting points:



I wonder who made such an interesting topic. :) :wink: Haven't saw you on for a while, trust you are keeping well.
User avatar
RyanfaeScotland
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 499
Munros:8   Corbetts:1
Fionas:1   
Sub 2000:4   
Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Re: Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn

Postby IamAJMiller » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:35 am

RyanfaeScotland wrote:
IamAJMiller wrote:There was a thread going on this same topic a while back with a lot of interesting points:



I wonder who made such an interesting topic. :) :wink: Haven't saw you on for a while, trust you are keeping well.


Hahaha!! Interesting points I said, not topic! ;-) I especially liked the points where I get shot to pieces! I'm keeping well though mate, cheers!
User avatar
IamAJMiller
Munro compleatist
 
Posts: 739
Munros:13   Corbetts:31
Fionas:2   Donalds:3
Sub 2000:18   Hewitts:51
Wainwrights:78   
Joined: May 17, 2010
Location: Perthshire

Re: Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn

Postby electricfly » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:00 pm

Sakes! AJ, have you not watched Ed Stafford's Marooned or Naked and Afraid on Discovery Channel? Going barefoot in hostile environments is all the rage! :roll:

You spoiled their book deal. :lol:
User avatar
electricfly
 
Posts: 1657
Munros:282   Corbetts:34
Fionas:10   Donalds:1
Sub 2000:9   Hewitts:26
Wainwrights:45   
Joined: Mar 19, 2012

Re: Giving advice to folk planning things they maybe shouldn

Postby RyanfaeScotland » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:09 pm

IamAJMiller wrote:...two women out in the wilderness, one of them without any shoes or boots on! All she had was little sports ankle socks on and as a result was caked in mud, with her ankles and feet cut to ribbons.....


What a pompous and elitist attitude to have. Not everyone has the money for shoes or boots and the like you know. :wink: :lol: (Joke from the last topic for those who haven't re-read it!)

I reckon you were right on the money on this one and I bet the women in just socks was thanking you very much mentally for standing up for her even if she didn't say so in front of her friend!
User avatar
RyanfaeScotland
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 499
Munros:8   Corbetts:1
Fionas:1   
Sub 2000:4   
Joined: Feb 26, 2013




Can you help support Walkhighlands?


Our forum is free from adverts - your generosity keeps it running.
Can you help support Walkhighlands and this community by donating by direct debit?



Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests