which is the donald - tarmangie or whitewisp?

[snowgoose]

Made failed attempt to do Innerdownie and Tarmangie today as I made the mistake of following duff route instructions starting from Castlehill Reservoir car park. Have now acquired Cicerone book and OS Explorer map and the book claims that Whitewisp is the Donald whereas Tarmangie gets the balloon on the WH map. So which is it?

[Sgurr]

The hill bagging site is generally bang up-to-date.

http://www.hill-bagging.co.uk/mountaindetails.php?rf=1646

[snowgoose]

Thanks Sgurr. Looks like I'll have to do Innerdownie and Tarmangie as separate trips from Burnfoot and Dollar resp., as there is - according to Cicerone - a big and therefore probably dog-unfriendly ladder stile and a man-eating bog between them.

[Sgurr]

Thanks Sgurr. Looks like I'll have to do Innerdownie and Tarmangie as separate trips from Burnfoot and Dollar resp., as there is - according to Cicerone - a big and therefore probably dog-unfriendly ladder stile and a man-eating bog between them.

More and more danger. There was a wasps nest just between the main path and the summit this July on Innerdownie, but they should be gone by now.

[Dave Hewitt]

Tarmangie is slightly higher than Whitewisp, 645m plays 643m, although the obvious and quite large cairn on Tarmangie isn't quite the summit, as you'll see when you get there. In terms of which is the Donald - both are, with Tarmangie being the main Donald and Whitewisp the subsidiary top. That's the way the Donalds list works (the SMC version, at least), with both main and subsidiary summits counting - the same used to be the case with Munros until that went out of fashion.

In terms of the high stile just on the Innerdownie side of Whitewisp, I'm no dog-owner so haven't ever had cause to properly look for a dog gate - but I think there is one, so you should be OK. The top of the stile can be a bit skiddy in wet weather, but other than that it's fine. When it was first put in a decade or so ago the WTS didn't put a platform on top, so it was quite precarious - but it's easier now.

The boggy bits mentioned by the guidebook now have little wooden walkways across them (which is a shame, as the bog was trivial to avoid or jump). The guidebook is to be treated with caution on various matters, eg timings and directions - and, it seems, categories of hills.

Nice pair of hills, anyway - all sorts of good ways to do them, and they repay return visits. The Sherup loop taking in Ben Shee is good, as is the option from the Castle Campbell side and returning through the Quey pass. They're also good as part of a longer loop from Alva or Tilli over Ben Cleuch etc, returning from Dollar via the old railway cycleway (although this is closed for repairs until late-Nov).

[snowgoose]

Thanks Dave. That's helpful. I've found a walk report complete with pictures of stile and what looks like a dog-gate, and a dog. The pictures of Innerdownie and Tarmangie look nothing like the hills I was looking at, but I was approaching from the wrong direction. Does Tarmangie now have dense mature forestry on most of its lefthand side when looking at it from Glenquey Rvr.?

[Dave Hewitt]

Does Tarmangie now have dense mature forestry on most of its lefthand side when looking at it from Glenquey Rvr.?

You can't see Tarmangie from the Glenquey reservoir - it's tucked away round the corner behind Whitewisp. You can see it from Glensherup reservoir, though - it's on the left-hand side away up the glen. There's a track along through the trees (start from the Glensherup car park and in due course go right at a track junction), and when the track eventually ends there's a decent enough way to be found more or less straight up through the trees - they're dense and mature but reasonably spacious. Eventually you pop out quite close to a gate in the deer fence, near the summit. (This is a bit of an acquired-taste route up Tarmangie, admittedly - and trying to push out horizontally beyond the end of the track to the Tarmangie/Cairnmorris col is poorer and a lot twiggier - not recommended.) From Tarmangie you could come back along the ridge via Whitewisp and Innerdownie.

Personally I wouldn't really bother with guidebooks or (heresy!) trip reports, however. Get yourself a map - either OS Landranger 58 or the Harvey Ochils sheet is fine - and then just follow a combination of your nose and a compass.

[snowgoose]

Thanks for the tip Dave. I already had the 58 but it's a bit old, so got the Explorer 366 after the event. Will have another shot at them soonish.

[Dave Hewitt]

Thanks for the tip Dave. I already had the 58 but it's a bit old, so got the Explorer 366 after the event. Will have another shot at them soonish.

Quick update on this. I was on Whitewisp/Innerdownie again this week, in poor weather from the Glensherup side. Went up by a slope of replanted trees near the Roughcleuch Burn - interesting but not really recommended. Did a quick out-and-back to Whitewisp once up, then returned via Innerdownie and one of the standard ways off (back into the trees at the second stile - the one level with the cross-wall - and so down to the track via a sketchy but useful path).

I was halfway back along to Innerdownie before I realised I'd forgotten to check if there was a dog gate at the Whitewisp stile. However, another Ochils-regular friend has since confirmed that there is one - and there are also dog gates alongside both the upper stiles into the trees below Innerdownie, ie the first one and the useful one.

So you should be OK - but you've also got the option of avoiding any problems completely, as there's the old path along the ridge beside the wall that stays clear of the deer fence and doesn't take much longer anyway. If coming from the Whitewisp side, when you get to the high stile you'll find it's pretty much alongside a corner in the deer fence. Go left, follow the stock fence for a few minutes and you'll reach the old path at a modern metal gate. If you follow this path east along the ridge for around a kilometre you'll arrive back at the deer fence which has a gate in it - go through this and rejoin the main path along to Innerdownie with no further complications. Innerdownie summit is a nice spot, plus there's the ruin of the old wallers' bothy just before the top if you want a better windbreak for a snack.

Hope that helps.

[snowgoose]

Thanks for all that info Dave and for checking out dog-gate. Will be heading up there first opportunity, weather permitting.