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Access restriction due to filming

Access restriction due to filming


Postby Andyroo99 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:20 am

An access related question for those on the Forum who may be knowledgeable about the topic.

Walking in Dalmeny Estate by Edinburgh, following main route through estate, when hired security guard stopped me and said I couldn’t continue on the main route due to filming activity – stating that access was not currently allowed – that it was private land and that the film production company had the right to prevent access.

Under the ethos of ‘responsible access’ is this permissible? Can a usually walked route be closed as such?

There were no signs at the entrances to the estate notifying walkers of any access restrictions. Was the security guard right – or might he have been enjoying the fact that he was wearing a fluorescent jacket and had a walkie-talkie in his hand?!?
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Re: Access restriction due to filming

Postby rgf101 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:13 am

I am not knowledgeable about the topic.

However, it seems to me to be likely permissible. It's to do with estate work (if a little tangentially), and is presumably temporary. Not really all that different from "we're moving livestock around here, could you take an alternative route." Although it would be nice if they had signs up at the entrance, and I do think whoever's stopping you should be able to tell you how to get to where you're going, or alternatively how long the wait will be.

I'm local and saw all the trucks there last week, was wondering what they were up to.

Dalmeny / Rosebery are reasonably good on access, I feel, considering there is farm work going on, and are at least usually clear about where they do and don't want you. I've had quick responses from Edinburgh Council's Access guy if you want to ping him an email, but I suspect it's a case of a temporary restriction for legitimate estate purposes, it's just one of those things.
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Re: Access restriction due to filming

Postby Skyelines » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:53 pm

The "ethos" of responsible access is that respect for the other applies to both parties, the land manager and the one taking access.
The code allows land managers to make temporary restrictions to allow activities to be completed safely and without disruption. In doing so they can ask you to avoid an area and ideally provide guidance on alternatives routes.
To ignore a request to avoid an area and carry on and disrupt the activity would not be respectful and could be irresponsible behaviour.
The code also requires land managers to remove any restrictions once the activity is completed.

It would seem in this case that using a person rather than signs means that the temporary nature of a restriction is easily maintained and can be lifted as soon as the activity is completed.
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Re: Access restriction due to filming

Postby RiverSong » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:30 pm

Dalmeny estate is my favourite walking route. It’s private land although the owners are very generous in allowing walkers and cyclists access. They also own Cramond Island. I’ve also been turned back because the owners have closed the route for something but there are so many paths it’s easy to stay on the estate, just have to use an alternative path. It’s worth remembering that Barnbougle Castle is now being used for weddings so on Fridays and Saturdays the paths around the castle might be closed to walkers. Beautiful place.
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Re: Access restriction due to filming

Postby rgf101 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:36 pm

Do they close the paths past the castle when there are weddings on? That would annoy me a bit, it's not as if they're taking photos out on the road, seems that would just be so the guests don't have to watch me puffing away on my bike...

I do enjoy that route on my bike - bit of mud, bit of road, bit of forest, bit of sea, bit of a bacon roll in South Queensferry before heading home...
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Re: Access restriction due to filming

Postby RiverSong » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:25 pm

[quote="rgf101"]Do they close the paths past the castle when there are weddings on? That would annoy me a bit, it's not as if they're taking photos out on the road, seems that would just be so the guests don't have to watch me puffing away on my bike...

i honestly don’t know if they close the paths when weddings are on but they sometimes close them for other reasons. If they do there are always signs up showing you the alternative route. With all due respect, if I was getting married I’m not sure I’d want to see you puffing away on your bike although I often do exactly that myself as the estate has a few steep hills 😯

I also enjoy that route very much but without the bacon roll, it’s a fried egg roll for me 😋
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Re: Access restriction due to filming

Postby Border Reiver » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:49 pm

A good number of years ago, I was cycling from the west end of Loch Laggan to climb Beinn a Chlachair and as I approached Loch na-Earba I was stopped by a very pleasant security chap who asked if I wouldn't mind waiting for 15 mins or so as they were about to shoot a scene for Monarch of The Glen. I chatted to him until they finished filming and I was told that I could go through and he thanked me for my patience. I knew by the MOTG roadside signs that they were around somewhere, so it wasn't unexpected.
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Re: Access restriction due to filming

Postby Andyroo99 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:16 pm

Many thanks for your replies and views.

The security person was a bit abrupt in just stating the main path in question was closed and everything beyond was out of bounds - the land was private and that the film company had closed the area. It was intimated that closure would be for some time and no alternatives other than retreat were offered. Appreciative of the fact that the onus of 'responsible access' lies with both 'parties', it did appear that the notion of 'power' had perhaps gone to the security person's head!!! Essentially, all that was missing from his attire was a neck-slung loudspeaker!!! Appropriate signage at the various entrances to the estate might have been a better option, warning walkers/cyclists of closure further on into the estate.

The security person in question was tight-lipped about what was actually being filmed. Perhaps a Scottish remake of the Robert Redford/Nick Nolte cinematic 'A Walk In The Woods' ...........
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Re: Access restriction due to filming

Postby rgf101 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:57 am

I might, if it happened to me, drop a quick note to the estate letting them know their otherwise decent reputation on access is suffering a little. But given it's a temporary thing, I might not bother.

I did feel they were a bit over-keen with their Covid closure - you could get in at the Cramond or S Queensferry end, but not through the middle, which closed off the through route, IIRC.
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Re: Access restriction due to filming

Postby AJ01 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:11 am

Andyroo99 wrote:...
Walking in Dalmeny Estate by Edinburgh, following main route through estate, when hired security guard stopped me and said I couldn’t continue on the main route due to filming activity – stating that access was not currently allowed – that it was private land and that the film production company had the right to prevent access.
...

Border Reiver wrote:A good number of years ago, I was cycling from the west end of Loch Laggan to climb Beinn a Chlachair and as I approached Loch na-Earba I was stopped by a very pleasant security chap who asked if I wouldn't mind waiting for 15 mins or so as they were about to shoot a scene for Monarch of The Glen. I chatted to him until they finished filming and I was told that I could go through and he thanked me for my patience. I knew by the MOTG roadside signs that they were around somewhere, so it wasn't unexpected.


FWIW I would reckon it most likely that the security guard(s) would be provided by a specialist firm under subcontract to the filming company, so two steps removed from the estate management. As with any service provider, you will get a wide variation in competence and attitude from the people engaged to do the job, as shown by the different accounts quoted above. I suspect that the only benefit to be gained from contacting the estate would be to suggest that when they allow a filming company to use the estate, requiring an access closure, that the filming company is instructed to tell the security company to brief their staff about alternative access routes if available. Whether the security guard in place at the time will be polite and friendly or officious and obstructive is probably pure luck, unfortunately.
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Re: Access restriction due to filming

Postby nigheandonn » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:55 am

It’s private land although the owners are very generous in allowing walkers and cyclists access.


Most land is private land - that is the default situation that the access laws apply to, and I'm not sure there's any particular generosity involved in refraining from blocking other people's legal rights.

Dalmeny aren't actively hostile in the way of some notorious highland estates, but they are a bit inclined to put up signs explaining why the actual law shouldn't apply to you here and why their preferred version of it would be so much better. (Rather than, I suppose, saying 'please don't because' but acknowledging the right, or asking for a formal closure.) I understand that they're busy, but I still find that irritating.
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Re: Access restriction due to filming

Postby AyrshireAlps » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:43 pm

Yip, not a matter of generosity at all, they're merely fulfilling their legal obligation of access. No more generous than me paying my taxes every month.

I'd agree with post up there regarding security firm, they won't have a clue about access laws.
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Re: Access restriction due to filming

Postby rabthecairnterrier » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:41 pm

By "main route" is this referring to the route from Cramond Brig down the west bank of the Almond and then to S Queensferry along the shore in front of Dalmeny House?
If so, it is a designated Core Path, which means it cannot be closed for any reason without specific permission from the Council as the Access Authority. The Council is also under a statutory obligation to consult with the Local Access Forum for their views.
Note that as this core path is the one that passes by Barnbougle Castle then the same consideration applies - ie it cannot be closed without council permission, wedding or no wedding.
Perhaps contact the Council's Access Officer and see what he says.
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Re: Access restriction due to filming

Postby Andyroo99 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:37 pm

Thank you again for all your replies and thoughts regarding my initial question - much appreciated.

Yes indeed, Dalmeny are to be commended in general for making access available to members of the public. In my case, the path I was walking wasn't the actual path around the coast, but rather was the more central path that follows from the Leuchold Gate entrance (the gate between the Chapel Gate entrance and New Hall's Gate, and which leads on round below Castle Craig Clump.

I have however noticed slight ambiguity in some of the access signage erected by Dalmeny Estate - signs with strict no access symbols displayed, alongside wording that says we would 'rather' you didn't access at this time/this area - which may be a bit confusing to some walkers/cyclists.
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Re: Access restriction due to filming

Postby Pads4 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:27 am

For anyone interested regarding the weddings, my fiance and I have a wedding booked at barnbougle later this year and there is no expectation the main through road would be closed. The direct area around the castle is already separated by a fence and is gated so would be the only directly restricted area.
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