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Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby Border Reiver » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:19 am

In Scotland, the rules seem to be less restrictive than in England. For travelling, we have to avoid travelling outside the village, town or part of a city where we live, and travel for exercise is permitted for a "short distance" within your area. This pretty much stops us from driving 20 odd miles to walk on the moors where we can guarantee not to meet anyone else.
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Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby Shuginho » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:38 pm

iain_atkinson_1986 wrote:
Giant Stoneater wrote:One of the things about not travelling outside your local authority area is the size of these areas for example Highland area which stretches from Glencoe to Durness/John O'Groats is close to 200 miles,going by government restrictions i could travel anywhere along this road for excercise as am not leaving that area, if i happen to live there,i know this is taking the **** but it is still within the wording which i think is wrong.


Why is it taking the ****? I've driven up to Assynt and down to Ardgour (from Inverness) a fair bit since the tier system came in. Cases in Highland Council area are and were comparatively low so so long as people aren't coming into or going out of and coming back to the area I don't see much of a problem.


you don't see a problem with a rule that allows, for example, someone living in Thurso travelling down to Glencoe to climb hills but restricts people much closer?

If anything, whilst you are well within your right to do what you done as per the law and the restrictions, you travelling all that way is just as irresponsible as me driving from the central belt to Arrochar, regardless of what the rate of infection is in our respective local authorities. The rule itself is what is ridiculous. They should have a blanket ban on it with a mileage limit that starts from your house otherwise it is just pointless.

I can't travel from West Lothian to climb Tinto (c20 miles) but you can drive from Inverness to Glencoe (c80 miles) or even worse, Mr Anon from Thurso to Glencoe (c190 miles).

As for the MRT, well done to them all.
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Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby iain_atkinson_1986 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:54 pm

Shuginho wrote:
iain_atkinson_1986 wrote:
Giant Stoneater wrote:One of the things about not travelling outside your local authority area is the size of these areas for example Highland area which stretches from Glencoe to Durness/John O'Groats is close to 200 miles,going by government restrictions i could travel anywhere along this road for excercise as am not leaving that area, if i happen to live there,i know this is taking the **** but it is still within the wording which i think is wrong.


Why is it taking the ****? I've driven up to Assynt and down to Ardgour (from Inverness) a fair bit since the tier system came in. Cases in Highland Council area are and were comparatively low so so long as people aren't coming into or going out of and coming back to the area I don't see much of a problem.


you don't see a problem with a rule that allows, for example, someone living in Thurso travelling down to Glencoe to climb hills but restricts people much closer?

If anything, whilst you are well within your right to do what you done as per the law and the restrictions, you travelling all that way is just as irresponsible as me driving from the central belt to Arrochar, regardless of what the rate of infection is in our respective local authorities. The rule itself is what is ridiculous. They should have a blanket ban on it with a mileage limit that starts from your house otherwise it is just pointless.

I can't travel from West Lothian to climb Tinto (c20 miles) but you can drive from Inverness to Glencoe (c80 miles) or even worse, Mr Anon from Thurso to Glencoe (c190 miles).

As for the MRT, well done to them all.


Come off it...

Travelling from West Lothian where cases have been sky high to do Tinto (literally busier than most high streets now) is not comparable to travelling from Thurso to do, e.g. Fraochaidh.
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Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby Shuginho » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:20 pm

Come off it...

Travelling from West Lothian where cases have been sky high to do Tinto (literally busier than most high streets now) is not comparable to travelling from Thurso to do, e.g. Fraochaidh.[/quote]

Ahh, referencing an unpopular hill in your example to justify allowing a c380 mile round trip.

Mr Thurso coming all that way and carrying the virus unknowingly to the other end of his LA is the issue.

You're completely missing the point but hey ho :lol:
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Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby Sunset tripper » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:21 pm

Glencoe MRT have wisely distanced themselves from the legal aspect of the travel violation this time. For me it is a good thing that it has been highlighted that the 2 guys were charged or fined. It highlights to others what the rules are and also highlights, especially this time of year that people should be taking as much care as they can on the hills or in whatever they are doing really.

In this case it has been hinted that the 2 walkers were putting the MRT in danger by their actions which of course is true of anyone who goes out on the hills and gets into trouble even in normal times. An interesting statistic (for me anyway :D ) is that at the time of the rescue Argyll & Butes Covid rate was lower than Highlands, so statistically regarding Covid, Glencoe MRT would have been at more risk rescuing someone from their own area. Of course the flipside of that is that the 2 boys from Oban have a bigger chance of catching the Covid from the police or MRT and bringing it back into Argyll than if they had gone out and got rescued off Ben Cruachan.

The important point is that everyone stays safe and minimises any risk if they are allowed out on the hill, but asking everyone to stay within a couple of miles of their house when the science doesn't show any benefit to that, is not the answer especially when the mental health implications grossly outweigh the Covid risk.

Well done to Glencoe MRT for averting a tragedy and they deserve a big donation. :D
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Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby iain_atkinson_1986 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:29 pm

Shuginho wrote:Come off it...

Travelling from West Lothian where cases have been sky high to do Tinto (literally busier than most high streets now) is not comparable to travelling from Thurso to do, e.g. Fraochaidh.


Ahh, referencing an unpopular hill in your example to justify allowing a c380 mile round trip.

Mr Thurso coming all that way and carrying the virus unknowingly to the other end of his LA is the issue.

You're completely missing the point but hey ho :lol:[/quote]

Whatever. Enjoy your central belt walks.
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Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby Shuginho » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:42 pm

iain_atkinson_1986 wrote:
Shuginho wrote:Come off it...

Travelling from West Lothian where cases have been sky high to do Tinto (literally busier than most high streets now) is not comparable to travelling from Thurso to do, e.g. Fraochaidh.


Ahh, referencing an unpopular hill in your example to justify allowing a c380 mile round trip.

Mr Thurso coming all that way and carrying the virus unknowingly to the other end of his LA is the issue.

You're completely missing the point but hey ho :lol:


Whatever. Enjoy your central belt walks.[/quote]

"whatever". :lol:

All the best!
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Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby WalkWithWallace » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:02 pm

I'm really not sure where I sit on this!

The chances of catching or spreading covid-19 whilst out hill walking is next to nil. There is the small matter of potentially needing rescued like these chaps and that puts a small risk of them maybe spreading the virus to their rescuers. But this is worst case scenario and won't happen very often, if at all.

On the flipside I am disappointed seeing fellow walkers flouting the rules whilst others sit tight and do as they're asked to try get the virus back under control. I don't buy into needing the hills for "mental health", as much as I miss them, just getting out for a long walk is enough to refresh myself and there is plenty alternatives in your local area to get out and explore.
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Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby Sunset tripper » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:31 pm

WalkWithWallace wrote:I'm really not sure where I sit on this!

The chances of catching or spreading covid-19 whilst out hill walking is next to nil. There is the small matter of potentially needing rescued like these chaps and that puts a small risk of them maybe spreading the virus to their rescuers. But this is worst case scenario and won't happen very often, if at all.

On the flipside I am disappointed seeing fellow walkers flouting the rules whilst others sit tight and do as they're asked to try get the virus back under control. I don't buy into needing the hills for "mental health", as much as I miss them, just getting out for a long walk is enough to refresh myself and there is plenty alternatives in your local area to get out and explore.


I generally agree with you and a fair post. Regarding mental health, for most people the Covid situation hasn't affected their mental health similar to your own situation, but I see it as complex issue and for many getting out on the hills will have been helping them get through this. For people who have lost family members or their livelihoods, any upside will be a help. It would punitive and counter productive for health generally, to ban people from pursuing low risk, healthy, feelgood activities when the benefits outweigh the risks so much.
All the best. :D
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Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby matt_outandabout » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:47 pm

I am really torn on this. As someone who lives about a mile from a border of authority, the use of authority lines is somewhat arbitrary. I also see the huge need for folk to improve mental and physical health through this difficult time.

We have chosen to stay pretty close to home, to wind back a bit on adventures, and avoid people above exact distances. An example is that one of our local hills is Dumyat - yet we have not been there all year as the hill is just a line of people where physical distance is difficult. We have gone out our way to explore tracks and hills that others would not, in our locality.

The problem is that too many people are happy to break Rule No.1 and so some kind of limits are needed. I think the police are right in this situation, as are MRT who did what they do and left strangers on the internet to argue over it....
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Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby WalkWithWallace » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:57 pm

Sunset tripper wrote:
WalkWithWallace wrote:I generally agree with you and a fair post. Regarding mental health, for most people the Covid situation hasn't affected their mental health similar to your own situation, but I see it as complex issue and for many getting out on the hills will have been helping them get through this. For people who have lost family members or their livelihoods, any upside will be a help. It would punitive and counter productive for health generally, to ban people from pursuing low risk, healthy, feelgood activities when the benefits outweigh the risks so much.
All the best. :D


It's a difficult one isn't it. Another problem is every local walk and popular hill is really busy. I could drive an extra 20-30 miles and get complete solitude down the Borders bagging some Donalds. :lol:
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Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby Dave Hewitt » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:18 pm

matt_outandabout wrote:An example is that one of our local hills is Dumyat - yet we have not been there all year as the hill is just a line of people where physical distance is difficult.

Dumyat is only really busy if you use the main path - it's one of those hills where something like 80-85% of people go the same way. There are half a dozen other good paths up, all of which are quiet - because everyone's on the main path! And even though the top is likely to be quite busy, almost no one goes to the actual summit so even that can be done without being close to people. Having said that, Colsnaur just across the glen is arguably a nicer - and certainly much quieter - option. (Funnily enough the same argument applies to Tinto, mentioned elsewhere in this thread - there are various perfectly good and pleasant ways up that avoid the busy standard route.)

I was on Dumyat this afternoon - watched the sunset from the top. Up by the race route from Logie Kirk then across to what's known as the parallel path, before coming down the E side - although it was basically a case of avoiding the actual paths as they're sheets of ice just now. Saw three people.
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Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby spiderwebb » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:39 pm

The key issue is you do not know whether you have the virus or not and travel outside of your own home, let alone area, is potentially helping the spread.

You can argue over distances all you like, the fact that you might be on the edge of your local authority or the fact that you’re going for a walk up a mountain, possibly meeting no one (or at least the easy possibility of remaining at distance if you do), driving there and back in your car, not stopping in the presence of anyone. Yes, in theory that would be fine.
Unfortunately, the powers that be cannot come up with 65 million different rules, to accommodate all of us. For some the rules will be easy and more flexible by virtue of their postcode, for others not so. Add to that the differing levels of education, understanding and interpretation, not to mention those that refute this whole pandemic, and the rules need to be kept manageable.

I agree that sometimes the rules can seem to be ‘strange’ to say the least, and likewise does it matter whether we have 4 levels or 5 tiers, or 5 tiers plus extended Tier 4 (is that 6 ?).

Personally, I’ve travelled nowhere, except to my extended household once over the festive period (I live alone) and for food shopping, but return to work next week will have me travelling 37 miles each way to a different local authority to do non-essential work in the largest hospital north of the Central belt, but that’s fine of course.
As for mental health, yes it does have an impact and as with the levels/tiers the impact can vary too, but at a time of year when daylight is at its lowest, it can be a struggle.
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Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby Tringa » Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:35 pm

Excellent post, Spiderwebb.

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Re: Glencoe hillwalkers fined for travel violation.

Postby Spade » Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:12 pm

I wonder if there happened to be rambling optician in the area and they were going to test their eyesight :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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