walkhighlands

This forum is for general discussion about walking and scrambling... If writing a report or sharing your experiences from a route, please use the other boards.

New Covid law 26/4/2021

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby jupe1407 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:09 pm

It's been common knowledge for weeks that travel outwith your own areas was fine from 26th April. Yes, we are all in Level 3, but what you can/cannot do within Level 3 has been adjusted, hence no travel restrictions on the mainland.

ETA: One thing I'm not 100% on - if staying in self-catering tourist accommodation, are you limited to one household? My understanding is that you are, but not totally sure.
User avatar
jupe1407
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 1407
Munros:245   Corbetts:32
Grahams:11   
Sub 2000:5   
Islands:2
Joined: May 15, 2012
Location: Forfar

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby Sgurr » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:31 pm

Thanks Paul. There will only be us 2 + sister in law and partner at this wedding (+minister and possibly piper)so am very keen to go, as after 35 years they have finally decided to take that step.
User avatar
Sgurr
Munro compleatist
 
Posts: 5115
Munros:282   Corbetts:222
Grahams:219   Donalds:89
Sub 2000:569   Hewitts:138
Wainwrights:160   Islands:58
Joined: Nov 15, 2010
Location: Fife

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby Paul Webster » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:00 pm

jupe1407 wrote:ETA: One thing I'm not 100% on - if staying in self-catering tourist accommodation, are you limited to one household? My understanding is that you are, but not totally sure.


Yes, until 17th May. The self-catering rules are the same as for meeting others at home. Expected to move to 6 people from 2 households on 17th May, then 6 / 3 on 7th June, and 8 /4 from late June. There is no limit on numbers if all from same household.

Best source of info for self-catering rules:
https://www.assc.co.uk/answers-to-key-questions/
User avatar
Paul Webster
Site Admin
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 5423
Munros:282   Corbetts:222
Grahams:68   Donalds:45
Sub 2000:117   Hewitts:133
Wainwrights:134   Islands:92
Joined: Jan 6, 2007
Location: Highland
Walk wish-list

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby Sunset tripper » Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:59 pm

The problem all along has been that the law has been fairly difficult to find and interpret like many laws.

The guidance has also been vague with many suggesting it must be adhered to rather than used as what it is ie. guidance. Guidance should surely be looked at and considered and the individual is then free to make a decision within the law.

The hill walking community has been let down by mountaineering scotland especially. The law said hill walking was legal in your own area but the guidance said you should stay as close to home as possible.
The guidance also said you shouldn't go out unless it was absolutely essential. Golf was OK and presumably essential.
Hill walkers or munro baggers therefore should have been told it was ok to go as far as they needed in their area for their recreation of choice. No one from the walking or mountaineering community said this.

Just a few weeks ago under pressure from some members who unbelievably thought solo wild camping was wrong, mountaineering scotland changed their advice and advised members not to solo wild camp even close to home.

The impact of the unnecessary restrictions on hillwalkers with a bit of luck will not have too many health implications.

In future if anything like this is necessary again we should be explained the law properly and asked to look at the guidance and make sensible decisions.

We should not be told it is compulsory to follow the guidance - it defeats the whole purpose of guidance in the first place. :?

Enjoy the hills :D
User avatar
Sunset tripper
 
Posts: 2486
Joined: Nov 3, 2013
Location: Inverness

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby AyrshireAlps » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:44 pm

Golf was OK and presumably essential.
Hill walkers or munro baggers therefore should have been told it was ok to go as far as they needed in their area for their recreation of choice. No one from the walking or mountaineering community said this.


I know of a few golfers who's courses are in neighbouring authorities, and as such they couldn't book tee times.

It's nigh on impossible to write guidance that covers everyone's needs
AyrshireAlps
Stravaiging
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Nov 10, 2020

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby JohnZD » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:04 pm

Indeed, that’s the crux. Despite there being one source of the truth (the SG), some of the details have been unclear and ambiguous, and there’s now a pile of documentation, with revisions and revision dates interspersed.
I may be wrong, but the guidance seemed to be that travel to the Islands was that 2 Flow tests were mandatory. I now believe it is not law, but it is straightforward to pick up a pack of tests from a centre in you local authority
JohnZD
Munro compleatist
 
Posts: 9
Munros:49   Corbetts:8
Grahams:45   Donalds:89
Sub 2000:9   
Islands:17
Joined: Jan 19, 2020
Location: Falkirk

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby Sunset tripper » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:13 pm

AyrshireAlps wrote:
Golf was OK and presumably essential.
Hill walkers or munro baggers therefore should have been told it was ok to go as far as they needed in their area for their recreation of choice. No one from the walking or mountaineering community said this.


I know of a few golfers who's courses are in neighbouring authorities, and as such they couldn't book tee times.

It's nigh on impossible to write guidance that covers everyone's needs


Yes of course, but golfers leaving their own LA would have been breaking the law. Travelling a distance in your own area to play golf was fine though.

My view is that mountaineering scotland, who had information that travelling for mountaineering activities was negligible in covid spread, should have been telling their members this rather than directing them to the vague government guidance.
Also strange for them to decide to change their stance on solo wild camping in your own area when it was clear this was harmless and not against the law.

Mountaineering Scotland don't have to cover everyones needs - just give guidance on what is legal and what they see as safe for their own community.
User avatar
Sunset tripper
 
Posts: 2486
Joined: Nov 3, 2013
Location: Inverness

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby josbrands » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:30 pm

I am new to the forum, not new to Scotland :-)
Will I be able to travel to Scotland this year ?
how are you feeling about that?
User avatar
josbrands
Walker
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Apr 27, 2021
Location: Geldrop - the Netherlands

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby pww235 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:47 am

www.gov.scot/coronavirus-covid-19/

Click to expand the "Travel and quarantine" section.

"You can travel anywhere in Scotland for any purpose. You can stay in tourist accommodation but should not stay in someone else's house."
User avatar
pww235
 
Posts: 22
Munros:25   
Donalds:1
Sub 2000:5   
Joined: Jan 4, 2016
Location: Edinburgh

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby josbrands » Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:03 pm

Thanks pww ...
it will take some time anyway as i am travelling from the Netherlands; see advice and guidance below ...

"Travelling to Scotland from abroad

You should only travel to Scotland if you have an essential reason to do so. At the moment, holidays are not a legal reason to travel.
If you do have an essential reason to travel from abroad, it is likely you will need to isolate in a hotel or at home in Scotland for at least 10 days after you arrive. What you need to do depends on whether your journey is directly to Scotland or not. "
User avatar
josbrands
Walker
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Apr 27, 2021
Location: Geldrop - the Netherlands

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby Moriarty » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:21 pm

Sunset tripper wrote:My view is that mountaineering scotland, who had information that travelling for mountaineering activities was negligible in covid spread, should have been telling their members this rather than directing them to the vague government guidance.
Also strange for them to decide to change their stance on solo wild camping in your own area when it was clear this was harmless and not against the law.

Mountaineering Scotland don't have to cover everyones needs - just give guidance on what is legal and what they see as safe for their own community.


Mountaineering Scotland derives a very substantial proportion of its income stream from SportScotland. That isn't directly ScotGov funding, but it is Public funding and the funding body has political oversight. Under those circumstances those in MS might feel that making waves with ScotGov policy might run counter to the best interests of the organisation (and thus its long term projects).

With that funding structure it would be hard to act as a Union for climbers/walkers - Unions aren't usually part-funded by the management. ;)

Members of MS might well feel that their interests have not been publicly fought for by the organisation (similar to Foot and Mouth with MCoS). MS might argue they have quietly brought as much pressure to bear as they could, with little visible result (but no damage to funding).

Non-members don't have a valid gripe - difficult to argue that a part-public funded body should argue against public health policy if you have no chips on the table.

No real surprises though - MCoS took a thoroughly supine approach to Foot and Mouth restrictions when there was no human risk and clearly for many parts of Scotland no risk to agriculture. It would be a seismic change if MS came out swinging against Public Health restrictions where there is potential (however small) of risk to people.
Moriarty
 
Posts: 327
Joined: Dec 15, 2013

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby Scraggygoat » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:48 pm

I agree the Mountaineering Scotland was probably conflicted by sports Scotland funding, and probably also had officers or board members whom due to their geographic residence had at least sympathy with the rural unscientific xenophobia, plus others may (though I don’t know) have had political persuasions/leanings not conducive to ‘rocking the boat’ on our behalf.

However they are constitutionally bound to represent us first and foremost, irrespective of funding, a duty which they appear to have completely abandoned.

If you are experienced mountaineer in Scotland, having had your representative organisation spectacularly fail you, the the only logical conclusion is that their is now no point to membership. I won’t be rejoining.

If someone tabled a motion at the next AGM to disband the organisation, I would probably vote in favour. The organisation has now evolved to a point where it is no longer acting in its members interests.
Scraggygoat
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mar 7, 2014

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby Moriarty » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:53 am

Scraggygoat wrote:If you are experienced mountaineer in Scotland, having had your representative organisation spectacularly fail you, the the only logical conclusion is that their is now no point to membership. I won’t be rejoining
.


I would be interested to hear from MS, with some details of how they lobbied on our behalf before considering my membership. I suspect a pragmatic approach was taken, but personally I would have liked to have seen more overt campaigning.
Moriarty
 
Posts: 327
Joined: Dec 15, 2013

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby Scraggygoat » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:33 am

We know how they lobbied; silently without conviction!
Let’s not forget by going the judicial route faith groups got 50 people packed indoors before we were allowed on the hill.


If they want to represent the membership from this point forward (and I have serious doubts as an organisation they do), they need to;

1) Unreservedly apologies to the bulk of the membership for being church mice

2) Reconfirm they regard representing the membership as the first priority; not Mountain safety, not training, not climbing coaching, not diversity, not being a arms length voice of the government.

3) They have stated that vociferous campaigning would have been detrimental to the organisations post COVID objectives. They need to tell us what objectives were more important than members physical and mental well being, then we can judge.

4) Energetically campaign to be included in the Scottish COVID Enquiry, stating they want the enquiry to look at the legality of banning travel without interaction. So that it can’t happen again.

5) Currently their press releases show little inclination to fight for the membership and more trying to tell the members what to do (and in the process making hill goers look like idiots) notice how all the press releases have focused on how we should be responsible when accessing the hills and be respectful of local communities. At no point have they turned the mirror and said if landowners break the law or the SOAC they stand ready willing and able to take them to the courts and will crowd fund do so.

6) State whether the Scot Gov either directly or indirectly threatened to remove SportsScot funding if they didn’t tow the line.

7) if the answer to the above is yes, why didn’t they inform the membership.....

8) Why at the end of last summer when further lock down was looking likely, they didn’t survey the membership for the direction we wanted them to take?

Personally I think the organisation has gone past the point of no return and are now irrelevant to most Scottish hill goers.
Scraggygoat
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mar 7, 2014

Re: New Covid law 26/4/2021

Postby Scraggygoat » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:10 pm

Though I like the idea of a Mountaineering Union which the government would have no sway over, that would be prepared to put the boot in against SOAC transgressive estates, wouldn’t always compromise with local nimby’s and would not keep telling us how to wipe our stars outdoors!
Scraggygoat
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mar 7, 2014

PreviousNext



Walkhighlands community forum is advert free


Your generosity keeps this site running.
Can you help support Walkhighlands and the online community by donating by direct debit?



Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: allanglens and 29 guests