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The benefits of bright clothing

Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby Moder-dye » Mon May 03, 2021 8:40 am

There's no doubt that there are benefits of bright clothing if you are in need of assistance and need to be found. But, how often has that happened to you? Not once yet (touches wood) in my 51 years. I do have a bright orange survival bag in my day bag so if I, or some one with me, was in dire straights I'd probably be in it, or could certainly get it out to be seen.

As a cyclist it's bad enough having the pressure to cycle around like a belisha beacon or risk victim blaming (though oddly people still get hit despite day-glow colours and flashing lights). When I'm not on my bike it's dark/muted colours all the way especially as I'm often wanting to see wildlife.
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Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby AJ01 » Mon May 03, 2021 9:35 am

simon-b wrote:...
However, I agree safety is paramount. I personally prefer blue clothing on the hills, which I feel gives a reasonable compromise between visual pollution and invisibility. My emergency survival (bivvy) bag is orange, though!


I agree that blue clothing is a reasonable compromise, and in fact a blob of mid-blue colour on a mountainside stands out nearly as much as red or orange because it doesn't appear in the natural landscape colours (green/brown/grey/black/white) but isn't quite so garish. Navy blue not so much, though. Maybe if you've got a drab-coloured jacket, it might be worth taking in your pack one of those hi-viz sashes that cyclists wear, to put on in case of an accident when you need to be rescued.

It all comes down to how much you feel you need to be prepared for any eventuality when you're out in the mountains, and how much you want to carry. My inclination is to be prepared for many things, especially the high-impact low probability ones - for example by carrying a small mirror (60x30cm) so that if I get something in my eye when I'm solo, I can use it to try and remove the offending item. Probability of it happening? Very low. Impact on your ability to get around? Very high - can be close to incapacitating, as you need vision in both eyes to help judge distances on steep and uneven ground, and it doesn't help if the affected eye is painful and streaming with tears.

As for the current fashion for black clothing - well... just yuk. I was looking through an outdoors kit catalogue for walking trousers and it reminded me of Henry Ford's offer of cars: "You can have any colour you like so long as it's black."
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Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby simon-b » Mon May 03, 2021 1:08 pm

AJ01 wrote:
simon-b wrote:...
However, I agree safety is paramount. I personally prefer blue clothing on the hills, which I feel gives a reasonable compromise between visual pollution and invisibility. My emergency survival (bivvy) bag is orange, though!


I agree that blue clothing is a reasonable compromise, and in fact a blob of mid-blue colour on a mountainside stands out nearly as much as red or orange because it doesn't appear in the natural landscape colours (green/brown/grey/black/white) but isn't quite so garish. Navy blue not so much, though. Maybe if you've got a drab-coloured jacket, it might be worth taking in your pack one of those hi-viz sashes that cyclists wear, to put on in case of an accident when you need to be rescued.

It all comes down to how much you feel you need to be prepared for any eventuality when you're out in the mountains, and how much you want to carry. My inclination is to be prepared for many things, especially the high-impact low probability ones - for example by carrying a small mirror (60x30cm) so that if I get something in my eye when I'm solo, I can use it to try and remove the offending item. Probability of it happening? Very low. Impact on your ability to get around? Very high - can be close to incapacitating, as you need vision in both eyes to help judge distances on steep and uneven ground, and it doesn't help if the affected eye is painful and streaming with tears.

As for the current fashion for black clothing - well... just yuk. I was looking through an outdoors kit catalogue for walking trousers and it reminded me of Henry Ford's offer of cars: "You can have any colour you like so long as it's black."
Angus

Cheers Angus. I agree lighter blue than navy is better, not only for being seen, but also because the sun does come out on the mountains sometimes! Dark colours are not good in warm, bright conditions, whereas I find black trousers are fine in winter or on cold days.
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Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby AyrshireAlps » Mon May 03, 2021 2:55 pm

As a cyclist it's bad enough having the pressure to cycle around like a belisha beacon or risk victim blaming (though oddly people still get hit despite day-glow colours and flashing lights). When I'm not on my bike it's dark/muted colours all the way especially as I'm often wanting to see wildlife


There is a difference there though*, drivers hit people not because of the colours they are wearing, or lights, but it's due to the subconscious - most drivers drive in a bit of an auto pilot state, looking for shapes of cars, at an expected speed etc, that's one of the main reasons cars take cyclists out. I recall reading an RAF pilots explanantion of it, can't recall the details though but it was very interesting. I'd imagine it's the same for motorcyclists.

Whereas emergency services or MRT will actually be looking for any form of shape or colour on the hill.

* Cyclist here too!
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Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby rinnes » Mon May 03, 2021 3:48 pm

AJ01 wrote: ......

for example by carrying a small mirror (60x30cm)

.....



I think I would struggle to fit that in my rucksack, let alone in my little first aid kit :-D


But I understand what you mean.
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Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby AJ01 » Mon May 03, 2021 4:12 pm

rinnes wrote:
AJ01 wrote: ......

for example by carrying a small mirror (60x30cm)

.....



I think I would struggle to fit that in my rucksack, let alone in my little first aid kit :-D


But I understand what you mean.


Doh!! Meant mm of course. :crazy: :lol:
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Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby Graeme D » Mon May 03, 2021 4:16 pm

I got a similar comment from one of the trainers delivering a mountain leadership course to myself and 4 other colleagues about 7 or 8 years ago. Stuart Johnston's mob from Aberfeldy. She was a bit of a hard task master, bordering on goose stepping, and I don't think I'd put a foot wrong all day with my nav so she pulled me up on the sobriety of my clobber for the very same reasons. :lol:
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Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby al78 » Mon May 03, 2021 4:33 pm

AyrshireAlps wrote:
As a cyclist it's bad enough having the pressure to cycle around like a belisha beacon or risk victim blaming (though oddly people still get hit despite day-glow colours and flashing lights). When I'm not on my bike it's dark/muted colours all the way especially as I'm often wanting to see wildlife


There is a difference there though*, drivers hit people not because of the colours they are wearing, or lights, but it's due to the subconscious - most drivers drive in a bit of an auto pilot state, looking for shapes of cars, at an expected speed etc, that's one of the main reasons cars take cyclists out. I recall reading an RAF pilots explanantion of it, can't recall the details though but it was very interesting. I'd imagine it's the same for motorcyclists.

Whereas emergency services or MRT will actually be looking for any form of shape or colour on the hill.

* Cyclist here too!


You mean this phenomenon?



To be fair I can see the argument for wearing something that has some contrast with the surroundings, just in case, but I don't think it should go as far as people being pressurised to conform.
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Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby Chris Henshall » Mon May 03, 2021 4:53 pm

Dear Graeme D,
Well, as we know, the best of their age have always gone out of their way to be seen...
Harold Raeburn.jpg
Harold Raeburn - Wot, no orange cag?
Jimmy Marshall.jpg
Jimmy Marshall - can hardly spot him in the photo.
Maybe your instructor thought that you had pretentions to greatness and needed to be brought back to earth?
Anyway, who’d have thought such a simple initial observation could open up such a mine of experiences and varying opinions!
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Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby davekeiller » Mon May 03, 2021 7:36 pm

I think people have slightly missed the point of this thread!

Nearly all of us have some form of emergency kit when out on the hills. We make sure to have a mobile phone and a whistle to be able to call for help in an emergency. We have a spare warm layer, some emergency food and a first aid kit. But how many of us think about making sure that if the worst happened and we needed help that someone could actually see us on an open hillside to help us?
A red or orange jacket will be much easier to see than a green or black one (especially in poor light). It's a simple choice, but one that could just possibly make a difference on the day when it all goes Pete Tong.
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Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby Scraggygoat » Mon May 03, 2021 7:58 pm

I think most experienced hill goers are well aware of their visual insignificance. Many of us carry a bright orange Bothy bag not just for shelter. It provides a bigger block of colour than a jacket and fabrics have moved on so much a two person one could fit in your pocket.

But returning to the original thread we thankfully live in a free country if people want to wear black, that’s their choice. The outdoor safety crew can inform them of the limitations, but can’t demand compliance.
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Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby davekeiller » Mon May 03, 2021 9:17 pm

That's what I was getting at. Literally no one is trying to demand compliance.
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Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby simon-b » Mon May 03, 2021 9:26 pm

davekeiller wrote:I think people have slightly missed the point of this thread!

Nearly all of us have some form of emergency kit when out on the hills. We make sure to have a mobile phone and a whistle to be able to call for help in an emergency. We have a spare warm layer, some emergency food and a first aid kit. But how many of us think about making sure that if the worst happened and we needed help that someone could actually see us on an open hillside to help us?
A red or orange jacket will be much easier to see than a green or black one (especially in poor light). It's a simple choice, but one that could just possibly make a difference on the day when it all goes Pete Tong.

With respect, Dave, I don't think people have missed the point. What you say about safety is completely valid, reiterating the point made by the OP. Most people on this forum are aware of the need to be safe on mountains, and I believe a good many have thought about the importance of being seen if they need rescuing. But all the other opinions expressed on this thread are valid contributions to the debate.
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Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby dav2930 » Mon May 03, 2021 10:47 pm

Hi Simon

simon-b wrote:Anyone wanting to combine wildlife observation with mountaineering may prefer more camouflaged clothing too; You're unlikely to see Bear Grylls on the mountains in day-glo orange!


Fair comment; it's a tricky one. I think one's opinion on this will be influenced by the viewpoint adopted. Seen from the perspective of MR members themselves HM's opinion is very persuasive (and that's not so much a personal safety issue as one of consideration for MR). As for Bear Grylls, I stopped using him as my role model ( :wink: ) when I saw him on tv selecting an anchor to abseil from; he had the choice between a sturdy tree and a sapling and he chose the sapling because he thought it would make it "more exciting" for himself and his celebrity charge (I forget who that was now). What a p*****k, I thought. :lol:

I do remember that discussion about the guide you encountered on the Aonach Eagach. I think it's a sad and irritating state of affairs when guides seem to think they have special rights to a particular route just because they earn their living by taking people on it. If someone wants to make mountain guiding their job, they should know that routes like the AE are both free for all and very popular. Obviously your opinion of the particular guide in question, whose identity must remain a matter of speculation ( :think: ), is informed and justified by your personal experience. It's a real shame, I think. But, personally, I would hire her if she paid me (a very large sum) :lol:
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Re: The benefits of bright clothing

Postby Caberfeidh » Tue May 04, 2021 8:07 am

davekeiller wrote:That's what I was getting at. Literally no one is trying to demand compliance.


Oh I think we can all think of someone who would demand compliance. And also she would demand that she should be judge, jury and executioner...

dav2930 wrote:personally, I would hire her if she paid me (a very large sum)


Me too, but only on the condition that I suture her mouth shut. She comes across as having discovered the mountaineering world and decided that she should be boss of it, lecturing those who have been tramping the hills since before she was born...
As for safety stuff, I sometimes carry handsmokes and hand-held flares if I'm going to be far off and in possible nastyness. One of these accidentally became tied to a bloke's car's back bumper, with the trigger cord pegged to the ground with a tent peg. When he drove off the thing enveloped the surrounding area in a cloud of day-glo orange smoke... :shock:
A friend once told me of a wild night in the old Kingshouse when an orange smoke signal was set off in the bogs,; whenever anyone entered the bog door a big cloud of fluorescent orange smoke billowed out into the bar... :lol:
NOT THAT I WANT TO GIVE ANYONE IDEAS!

p.s. I used to wear a big flourescent orange survival suit and my bivvi bag was an orange windsock from a helipad. Both items had mysteriously fallen off the back of an oil rig.
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