walkhighlands

This forum is for general discussion about walking and scrambling... If writing a report or sharing your experiences from a route, please use the other boards.

Right to Roam....in practice

Right to Roam....in practice


Postby Girl Outdoors » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:07 pm

OK please excuse me if asking some obvious questions but trying to understand what I might possibly experience in practice here. I'm familiar with the 2003 legislation and the exceptions to it. What I getting at is how this plays out in real life. I'm in the process of moving up to Scotland from the south so this is something I'm concerned about. Having read a few threads where's people have discussed acces problems have answered some of my questions but raised a few more. As always I try to behave responsibly and respect the law when out walking but also don't like people trying to take away rights to access either.

First off the curtilage around a property. Any guidance to how far that normally extends? I would imaging it would be obvious but also seems to me it could be a situation where a land owner could unreasonably extend it just to keep walkers away from their land. I read a thread here where someone was walking back down of the mountain and came onto a track and eventually was confronted by a lady claiming they were on her curtilage.

Second field margins. I understand that fields where crops are growing are off limits, fair enough. But i also read that the field margin is OK to walk around. Do people get harassed by farmers for walking around this?
Where I'm looking at buying a house there's a fair amount of cultivated land and I viewed one property that was quite appealing but when I drove around the area the number of crop fields was off putting. If I can assume that I can responsibly walk along field margins that would perhaps make me feel better.

During my property search I encountered a number of "private drive" signs. My initial assumption was that this applied to mainly motor vehicles. Correct? But the recent thread here about problems accessing a private drive concerns me. How do I easily ascertain where I have legal walking access down a private drive? I don't want to cause problems and strongly prefer to avoid but if I do I want to be sure in my assertion that I have a legal right to walk down the said drive or track.

Overall how often do these sorts of issues really arise?
I'll probably come back with more questions later.

Kate
Girl Outdoors
Wanderer
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Jun 19, 2021
Location: Fife

Re: Right to Roam....in practice

Postby Navvarr » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:49 pm

Ok, no doubt someone will perhaps come along with an actual technical answer.

In Scotland, we are expected to respect our surroundings, we don't walk across fields of sown crops, we don't disturb farm animals, we don't peek in windows or make nuisances of ourselves dusturbing locals.

I've been walking Scotland on my own and in groups and only ever had one person trying to warn me off from their private road- and as it turned out they had no right to.

Plan your route, stick to paths, there are numerous paths and Rights of Way and if you're walking a decent well trod path then Its highly unlikely you're doing anything wrong.
Navvarr
Munro compleatist
 
Posts: 76
Munros:75   Corbetts:7
Joined: May 27, 2014

Re: Right to Roam....in practice

Postby Marty_JG » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:45 pm

I'm English (for my sins) and moved to Scotland in the 90s. My first "encounter" with a farmer is when I went on a bit of a country walk from a friend's house in the countryside east of Edinburgh. I plotted out what I hoped would be a possible route from a quick glance over the horizon and set out. I stuck to the sides of fields and trudged along, lovely day, lovely weather. Somewhere over halfway through the loop it turns out I had to go though a farm. Slap bang in the middle. I plodded on through expecting to be challenged and being pre-prepared with profuse apologies and explanations of ignorance, and then it happened. The farmer.

And what he did shocks me to this day.

He waved and smiled. :shock:

It was the first of many positive culture shocks.

The only word to the wise I'd give you is keep your trap shut during World Cup season. It's nothing personal, but some of even the most placid types get worked up with saturation, fawning coverage of the English team on Scottish tellies.
User avatar
Marty_JG
Backpacker
 
Posts: 1223
Munros:10   Corbetts:2
Fionas:2   
Sub 2000:3   
Islands:3
Joined: Sep 12, 2016
Location: Glasgow

Re: Right to Roam....in practice

Postby nigheandonn » Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:20 pm

There are a handful of known trouble spots - a few of the big estates up north, and some odd individuals - but I think it's rare. I've never come across any, anyway, and I've walked some fairly unusual routes (from bus routes rather than car parks, usually). Field edges are fine, although there's no requirement to keep them in any kind of walkable condition...

I've had some good interactions with English farmers too, to be fair.

If I saw a sign that said 'private drive' I might assume that it really did just lead into a garden and was useless to me - but 'private road' only applies to cars (and it doesn't have to. 'Private' just means 'not funded by the council' - the owner can still let cars come along if they want.)

I've disturbed farm animals often, I'm afraid - you try *not* disturbing some sheep - but not maliciously.

There can be quite a bit of detail in the code, but broadly speaking it requires everyone involved not to act like idiots. Stick to that and you should be absolutely fine.
User avatar
nigheandonn
Wanderer
 
Posts: 1663
Munros:19   Corbetts:9
Fionas:7   Donalds:26+10
Sub 2000:64   Hewitts:133
Wainwrights:214   Islands:34
Joined: Jul 7, 2011
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Right to Roam....in practice

Postby Coop » Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:48 pm

Respect and common sense goes a long way.
Even during stalking season, you play the game ,they play the game; go somewhere else or vary a route, everyone's happy
I wouldn't get too hung up about it; I've never had any real issues
Coop
Munro compleatist
 
Posts: 1313
Munros:78   Corbetts:123
Fionas:68   Donalds:52+16
Sub 2000:14   Hewitts:41
Wainwrights:65   Islands:14
Joined: Jun 5, 2016
Walk wish-list

Re: Right to Roam....in practice

Postby Border Reiver » Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:25 am

In 50 odd years of country walking, I've never met a "get off my land" type. Farmers are like everyone else, they have good days and bad days and I just try to go along with what they are trying to do and not get in the way. They are mostly very helpful with locating paths if you are lost and I've found that, providing they aren't really busy, they like a chat with people they meet. I used to do a bit of casual farm work on a friends farm and he often told me of his meetings with walkers, where they came from and what jobs they did etc. He found them interesting. A few years ago my wife and I were on a right of way in Teesdale and came across a field of cattle. My wife is scared of them, so I went to find the farmer to see if there was an alternative route. He came back in his tractor and gave my wife a lift past the cattle in the tractor and was happy to chat about his business and our jobs for a while. He also advised that, it's best to go around a field of cattle, even if a path crosses the field through among them. My advice would be to get to know the local farmers and ask for advice if you need it, they will usually be happy to tell you if they prefer you to go around a field or across it and where all the paths are.
User avatar
Border Reiver
Wanderer
 
Posts: 1509
Munros:202   Corbetts:7
Fionas:3   Donalds:1
Sub 2000:2   Hewitts:62
Wainwrights:69   Islands:33
Joined: Feb 18, 2011
Location: North East England

Re: Right to Roam....in practice

Postby KatTai » Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:27 pm

I can't say I've had an issue even when I did accidentally end up in private grounds having followed a path through woods, I stopped and asked because the track I ended up following led to a large house and was told there was no problem walking that way and following the track around the house though I do believe people going through the grounds has became more of an issue since lockdown due to the sheer number of people and them not being responsible, leaving litter, causing obstructions with their parking etc, and now I know it is private it isn't something I'd do again.

I moved up from South of the border coming up to 15 years ago and it is a bit of a difference with regards to walking rights, it took me a bit of getting used to (along with getting used to strangers saying hello and stopping to chat!) and the first 'off path' walks were a bit strange even when it was just around a harvested field that had yet to be ploughed I still watched a fair few other dog walkers going round a good number of times before venturing off the path myself :lol:
User avatar
KatTai
Wanderer
 
Posts: 1136
Munros:52   Corbetts:16
Fionas:12   Donalds:2
Sub 2000:53   
Islands:32
Joined: Feb 12, 2015
Location: Angus

Re: Right to Roam....in practice

Postby matt_outandabout » Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:48 pm

I too moved up here 13 years ago from south.

Rule No.1* gets you a long way with our access laws. Be respectful, don't wander through a working site, private garden or similar. Smile, wave, enjoy the freedom. I really don't give it much thought and frankly the few times I have had a discussion over access it is stalking season or when in a canoe. And it is a few times.

And the discussion, even on one occasion when I was very wrong (permission given to access in an emergency by vehicle was given - by the wrong estate for the wrong track - and so I zippily drove a Landrover through a stalk in progress....) it was still amicable and an apology saw us shake hands and move on. :clap:


*for the avoidance of doubt.
Rule No.1=
Don't.
Be.
A.
D*ck.
matt_outandabout
Wanderer
 
Posts: 547
Munros:81   Corbetts:29
Fionas:22   Donalds:26
Sub 2000:35   Hewitts:191
Wainwrights:176   Islands:28
Joined: Nov 3, 2013

Re: Right to Roam....in practice

Postby davekeiller » Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:25 pm

It varies a little bit depending on exactly where you are, but I've never had a problem.
Think of curtilage as meaning garden: it's generally clear when you're somewhere you shouldn't be!
During stalking season, estates often ask walkers to stick to certain areas, which is for safety reasons and not much of a hardship.
Around farms you just have to be sensible - it's perfectly reasonable to go around the edge of a field rather than straight through it, especially if there are crops growing. If you have a dog, bear in mind that if the farmer thinks it's endangering his animals then he's entitled to shoot it and ask questions later so keep it on a lead especially at lambing time.
davekeiller
 
Posts: 987
Munros:154   Corbetts:31
Fionas:4   Donalds:3
Sub 2000:11   Hewitts:19
Wainwrights:20   
Joined: Oct 25, 2013

Re: Right to Roam....in practice

Postby LobeyD » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:10 pm

I think the reason the recent post on this subject attracted a lot of input is that the situation described is surprising rare plus the fact that those of us who make most use of the code get a bit protective when landowners would like to restrict it.

Some estates have a bit of a rep (e.g. north side of Glen Lyon) but I haven't personally had any issues there. In 10 years back in Scotland I've only had one issue with an estate hand who accused me of leaving multiple gates open, which was nonsense, but I've had many many more friendly waves and 'hellos'.

Don't be an idiot and stand your ground as amicably as possible if you think someone is taking the proverbial.
LobeyD
 
Posts: 164
Munros:254   Corbetts:94
Fionas:38   Donalds:27
Sub 2000:1   
Joined: Jul 28, 2017

Re: Right to Roam....in practice

Postby Pastychomper » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:02 am

My local estate (far north) has a bit of an unfriendly reputation and claims to stalk for 50 weeks of the year, and a local farmer once accused me (wrongly) of chasing his cows, but in both cases I just get on with it and ignore/avoid them. I keep Rule 1 and most people I meet do the same.

A couple of years ago I was walking along an estate road marked "private" and a bloke in a van pulled up and offered me a lift as far as the estate house. He thought I was mad to be walking in the snow but was happy to help me along.
User avatar
Pastychomper
Wanderer
 
Posts: 216
Munros:5   Corbetts:4
Fionas:4   
Sub 2000:8   
Islands:5
Joined: Jan 2, 2018

Re: Right to Roam....in practice

Postby Girl Outdoors » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:13 pm

Thanks everyone for your comments! As I'm sure you are aware some of this can sem a little new after a lifetime of conditioning to following public footpaths in the south. I'm now getting a better sense and confidence about how this works in practice.
Girl Outdoors
Wanderer
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Jun 19, 2021
Location: Fife




Can you help support Walkhighlands?


Our forum is free from adverts - your generosity keeps it running.
Can you help support Walkhighlands and this community by donating by direct debit?



Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: prog99 and 21 guests