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Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(


Postby scottcummings » Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:09 am

Hi all, had a great weekend doing some Munros with my son down by Loch Tay. That included the 4 Munros on the Càrn Mairg circuit from Invervar. We arrived about 9am yesterday to find the Car Park at Glen Lyon full (no suprise). We went a bit further down the road and find a nice large layby just before the bridge. We were booting up and getting ready when a local came by and advised us that if we parked there we would get a parking fine. There were no signs or warnings about parking in the area but took his word that it would be a problem and he advised that we could park a bit further down the road near a gated access driveway. So we drove a few minutes down the road to find the spot he described. There was a nice slot between a few cars which was not obstructing access to the gate or stopping the access way being used as a passing place. So we took off and had a great day up in the hills, the weather and views were amazing. We returned to the car 6 hours later to find that my car, along with the 2 cars in front of me had parking fines but the two cars behind me (away from the road, towards the gate) did not!

There were no signs about parking restrictions and I certainly thought that all the cars parked here were respectful of access to the gate and left plenty of room to use the area as a passing point.

Has any else had a parking fine down this area? Has anyone successfully appealed?

A few photos attached, mine is the black car in the middle.

Thanks for any comments.
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WhatsApp Image 2021-06-28 at 10.00.36.jpeg
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby Raynor » Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:43 am

They changed the road classifications in that area last year so you can now only legally park in designated car parks / parking areas. The Invervar car park only has space for 6 cars and has signs up saying if the car park is full then there is no other parking available and to come back another day. Not great if you've just driven for 3 hours to get there. I did it last week and there were yellow warning signs along the main road as well saying you can't park on the verges etc.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby scottcummings » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:13 am

I have to say I didn't notice the signs as I was too busy watching the road. I can see an issue with parking on the verge or blocking someone's driveway as its a narrow single track road, but surely the parking of my and other cars in this location is not affecting anyone or restricting access. Also confused by the fact that they gave 3 out of 5 cars parking tickets!
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby Sgurr » Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:25 pm

Raynor wrote:They changed the road classifications in that area last year so you can now only legally park in designated car parks / parking areas. The Invervar car park only has space for 6 cars and has signs up saying if the car park is full then there is no other parking available and to come back another day. Not great if you've just driven for 3 hours to get there. I did it last week and there were yellow warning signs along the main road as well saying you can't park on the verges etc.


On one occasion we had to park in Fortingall and did them from there. It is not so convenient, but can be done and Gleann Muillin is lovely.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby Moriarty » Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:46 pm

scottcummings wrote:There were no signs about parking restrictions and I certainly thought that all the cars parked here were respectful of access to the gate and left plenty of room to use the area as a passing point.


You presumably passed the Clearway signage at some point and missed it. Perth and Kinross Council put in place Temporary (18 month) Traffic orders under Covid Emergency provisions (which allow orders without normal consultation) on a number of rural Perthshire roads. This bans Verge parking (not that I would class parking offroad in the way you did as verge parking).

Christmas come early for some I suspect.

I suspect there is every chance this will get snuck into permanence given the way Councils work, it would be nice to think that Outdoor Organisations were alive to this but they have generally been mute in the face of officialdom.

Any suggestions as to who hillwalkers should be raising this with in ScotGov?
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby al78 » Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:26 pm

Raynor wrote:They changed the road classifications in that area last year so you can now only legally park in designated car parks / parking areas. The Invervar car park only has space for 6 cars and has signs up saying if the car park is full then there is no other parking available and to come back another day. Not great if you've just driven for 3 hours to get there. I did it last week and there were yellow warning signs along the main road as well saying you can't park on the verges etc.


I'm getting the impression that the Scottish highlands in the warmer months are becoming like SE England, rammed full. Yesterday I went to Slaugham to reccy a walk I am leading next Sunday. Every possible parking place in Slaugham and Slaugham Common was near rammed full through the morning (surprisingly I met very few people on my 5.5 mile loop). I've relocated the walk meeting point to Warninglid where there is more space to park.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby NickyRannoch » Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:07 pm

Moriarty wrote:
scottcummings wrote:There were no signs about parking restrictions and I certainly thought that all the cars parked here were respectful of access to the gate and left plenty of room to use the area as a passing point.


You presumably passed the Clearway signage at some point and missed it. Perth and Kinross Council put in place Temporary (18 month) Traffic orders under Covid Emergency provisions (which allow orders without normal consultation) on a number of rural Perthshire roads. This bans Verge parking (not that I would class parking offroad in the way you did as verge parking).

Christmas come early for some I suspect.

I suspect there is every chance this will get snuck into permanence given the way Councils work, it would be nice to think that Outdoor Organisations were alive to this but they have generally been mute in the face of officialdom.

Any suggestions as to who hillwalkers should be raising this with in ScotGov?


Not everything councils do is a revenue generator (and even if it was so what?). This was a response to serious anti-social use of roads across Perthshire as we came out of the first lockdown.

Would agree though that, without knowing where the public road begins and ends, it might be worth investigating if the OP is actually parked on a private road.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby davekeiller » Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:23 pm

Who gave you the ticket?
Might be worth contesting it if there was no signage visible...

I agree that some of this is a reaction to the mickey-takingly bad parking that was on display last summer, but they seem to be making it impossible to get to places other than by car, and then impossible to park when you get there!
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby Moriarty » Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:10 pm

NickyRannoch wrote:Not everything councils do is a revenue generator (and even if it was so what?). This was a response to serious anti-social use of roads across Perthshire as we came out of the first lockdown.

Would agree though that, without knowing where the public road begins and ends, it might be worth investigating if the OP is actually parked on a private road.


I didn't mention revenue generation, mainly because I didn't think that's why the restrictions were put in place. :?

Yes, the reason given for the restrictions was dangerous and antisocial parking (which undoubtedly took place).

The outcome is that responsible parking in undesignated but offroad parking is now a ticketable offence while no increase in designated parking infrastructure has been provided. This is being rolled out on other roads like the A82.

An unhealthy, unfit urban Scots population is being deterred from accessing their own country or funnelled into controlled designated arrangements.

I have no issue with dangerous parking being dealt with, but we seem to see increasing restriction and control (a la LLTNP) with little increased provision for responsible access.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby Moriarty » Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:37 pm

NickyRannoch wrote:
Moriarty wrote:Christmas come early for some I suspect.


Not everything councils do is a revenue generator (and even if it was so what?).


Ah - I wasn't referring to revenue....more the gift for the person who has everthing (other than many fewer folks walking widdershins only). :wink:
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby bar72 » Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:56 pm

Schiehallion Road is the same when we were up a couple of months back. Clearway signs around 2 miles each side of the main car park.

There will be a sign at the start of the clearway, with a note about its length, "For 2 Miles". You won’t find special road markings on a clearway, but there should be smaller, repeater signs at one-mile intervals.

If there is indeed no clearway signage anywhere on that particular road or more important, no repeater signs, I'd argue the ticket as invalid.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby NickyRannoch » Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:32 pm

Moriarty wrote:
NickyRannoch wrote:Not everything councils do is a revenue generator (and even if it was so what?). This was a response to serious anti-social use of roads across Perthshire as we came out of the first lockdown.

Would agree though that, without knowing where the public road begins and ends, it might be worth investigating if the OP is actually parked on a private road.


I didn't mention revenue generation, mainly because I didn't think that's why the restrictions were put in place. :?

Yes, the reason given for the restrictions was dangerous and antisocial parking (which undoubtedly took place).

The outcome is that responsible parking in undesignated but offroad parking is now a ticketable offence while no increase in designated parking infrastructure has been provided. This is being rolled out on other roads like the A82.

An unhealthy, unfit urban Scots population is being deterred from accessing their own country or funnelled into controlled designated arrangements.

I have no issue with dangerous parking being dealt with, but we seem to see increasing restriction and control (a la LLTNP) with little increased provision for responsible access.


My apologies. I have caught up with you now
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby Sunset tripper » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:39 pm

There has been a few issues with accessing these hills over the years. The estate must be delighted with the new developments and someone must be employed to come out and ticket all these cars which look parked perfectly reasonably to me. Hopefully these tactics don't spread further into the highlands.
The parking area at Strathan was rammed at 6.30 am on saturday and the Perth and Kinross parking warden would have been ecstatic if they had been let loose there on the approach road. All were sensibly parked but unfortunately that doesn't matter.
Near Strathan (Loch Arkaig) 26/06/21
20210626_175844.jpg


It surprises me that the government is allowing Perth and Kinross to act like this. It seems to me that in many cases they are changing Scotland into a very similar place to the one they wish to break away from. :?

NickyRannoch wrote:
Not everything councils do is a revenue generator (and even if it was so what?)


Scotland is arguably the unhealthiest country in europe. If we are not going to be able to provide a decent public transport system, or any public transport at all into areas like these, where people are going to take part in healthy pursuits, we should at the very least be thinking about providing proper big free parking areas instead of chasing people away and penalising folk who appear to be parking considerately. :crazy:
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby AJ01 » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:48 am

Sunset tripper wrote:There has been a few issues with accessing these hills over the years. The estate must be delighted with the new developments and someone must be employed to come out and ticket all these cars which look parked perfectly reasonably to me.
...


I think it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that an estate owner or someone in the estate management is friendly with someone on the local council (through the golf club or Masonic Lodge, etc) and has asked for a favour to keep those pesky hillwalkers away. Local business and local authorities have been know to behave like that on occasions.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby scottcummings » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:06 am

I've put in an appeal with Perth & Kinross Council. Lets see what they come back with. For info here is a map of the area. The blue is the clearway were parking/stopping is not permitted and the red dot is the car park for 6/7 cars.
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