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Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby iain_atkinson_1986 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:53 pm

Out of curiosity, does this apply to Pubil etc? I'm assuming the council hasn't meticulously mapped out or marked exactly where is okay to park but will be happy enough to fine you.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby bar72 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:20 pm

here's the info from pkc's website, with all roads concerned.

https://www.pkc.gov.uk/article/21821/Parking-restrictions-on-country-roads

C450 Kinloch Rannoch to Tomphubil
A827 Aberfeldy Road, Kenmore
C451 from the junction with the A827 Kenmore to Aberfeldy road
Pier Road, Kenmore
C448 Fortingall to Bridge of Balgie
B487 Calvine to Trinafour
A923 Blairgowrie to Dunkeld
C430 Loch Clunie to Mains of Clunie
C452 Foss to Pitlochry
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby Jon and Jen » Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:43 am

al78 wrote:
I never argued anything of the sort, you have created a strawman. I was saying that implying people should use public transport if they find parking difficult is not a practical solution, because using public transport to access hills is more difficult and expensive, and often impractical (I know, I've done it many times). I suspect most people would rather not bother going for a hill walk if it meant they had to use public transport to get there or walk up the same hills they could get too. I didn't make any statement about the health of the population, that was someone else. The poor health of the population is due to the collective mindset of individuals, there are plenty of easy ways to maintain health that don't require difficult logistics, and a major part of being healthy is a decent diet, which is one of the issues in the big cities of Scotland.
[/quote][/quote]

My apologies, I have attributed a comment to you that was someone else. My mistake. Sorry.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby Sunset tripper » Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:07 pm

Jon and Jen wrote:
Sunset tripper wrote:
Scotland is arguably the unhealthiest country in europe. If we are not going to be able to provide a decent public transport system, or any public transport at all into areas like these, where people are going to take part in healthy pursuits, we should at the very least be thinking about providing proper big free parking areas instead of chasing people away and penalising folk who appear to be parking considerately. :crazy:


Have to disagree with this. There is absolutely nothing stopping access to hills by public transport. There may be some that are more difficult than others and require more planning but I am using public transport and I'm out in the hills regularly.
Yes, public transport could be improved but it is not stopping our population accessing the countryside. That is more about lifestyle choices.


I'm interested in how you did these hills in Glen Lyon by public transport - I'm guessing it wasn't easy. :D

Jon and Jen wrote: You argued from a public health standpoint. That somehow public transport deficiencies were responsible for the unhealthy population


I can't see where anyone argued that.

Scotland has a population with a poor health record for many reasons.
In this case at Glen Lyon there is insufficient parking and folk are being turned away or fined like the OP who was sensibly parked not causing any problems.

We should being doing far more to make access to all areas a lot easier.

Personally I think Perth and Kinross council should reclaim an area of land from the estate, get the bulldozers in and build a nice big car park. :D
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby al78 » Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:56 am

Jon and Jen wrote:
al78 wrote:
I never argued anything of the sort, you have created a strawman. I was saying that implying people should use public transport if they find parking difficult is not a practical solution, because using public transport to access hills is more difficult and expensive, and often impractical (I know, I've done it many times). I suspect most people would rather not bother going for a hill walk if it meant they had to use public transport to get there or walk up the same hills they could get too. I didn't make any statement about the health of the population, that was someone else. The poor health of the population is due to the collective mindset of individuals, there are plenty of easy ways to maintain health that don't require difficult logistics, and a major part of being healthy is a decent diet, which is one of the issues in the big cities of Scotland.
[/quote]

My apologies, I have attributed a comment to you that was someone else. My mistake. Sorry.[/quote]

Apology accepted, an easy mistake to make in a thread containing posts with multi-quotes.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby al78 » Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:05 am

Sunset tripper wrote:
Jon and Jen wrote:
Sunset tripper wrote:
Scotland is arguably the unhealthiest country in europe. If we are not going to be able to provide a decent public transport system, or any public transport at all into areas like these, where people are going to take part in healthy pursuits, we should at the very least be thinking about providing proper big free parking areas instead of chasing people away and penalising folk who appear to be parking considerately. :crazy:


Have to disagree with this. There is absolutely nothing stopping access to hills by public transport. There may be some that are more difficult than others and require more planning but I am using public transport and I'm out in the hills regularly.
Yes, public transport could be improved but it is not stopping our population accessing the countryside. That is more about lifestyle choices.


I'm interested in how you did these hills in Glen Lyon by public transport - I'm guessing it wasn't easy. :D

Jon and Jen wrote: You argued from a public health standpoint. That somehow public transport deficiencies were responsible for the unhealthy population


I can't see where anyone argued that.

Scotland has a population with a poor health record for many reasons.
In this case at Glen Lyon there is insufficient parking and folk are being turned away or fined like the OP who was sensibly parked not causing any problems.

We should being doing far more to make access to all areas a lot easier.

Personally I think Perth and Kinross council should reclaim an area of land from the estate, get the bulldozers in and build a nice big car park. :D


I'd agree that making access to the hills more difficult in some areas won't help with the aim of persuading people to take up physical activity and introduce them to the joys of hillwalking, but the poor health of the population goes way beyond that (there are other ways to keep fit and healthy than climbing a hill). It is down to collective poor habits such as a poor diet, smoking, excessive drinking, and lack of physical activity in general thanks to sedentary jobs, using a car to get everywhere (i.e. acting like Americans), and lack of desire to work up a sweat. Addressing these issues is going to take a long time, if it is even possible. Humans by nature choose instant gratification over long term benefits, and unhealthy lifestyle choices provide that instant gratification, with the bad consequences felt in the future (very much like the climate change problem).
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby al78 » Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:13 am

Sunset tripper wrote:I'm interested in how you did these hills in Glen Lyon by public transport - I'm guessing it wasn't easy. :D


Only way I can see is to get a train to Pitlochry and cycle west along the minor roads. If you started in Edinburgh, you might just barely have enough time (assuming you have the fitness) to climb one munro and be able to get home on the same day, it would be a very long and tiring day.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby Sunset tripper » Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:16 am

al78 wrote:
Sunset tripper wrote:I'm interested in how you did these hills in Glen Lyon by public transport - I'm guessing it wasn't easy. :D


Only way I can see is to get a train to Pitlochry and cycle west along the minor roads. If you started in Edinburgh, you might just barely have enough time (assuming you have the fitness) to climb one munro and be able to get home on the same day, it would be a very long and tiring day.

Indeed, so it is extremely difficult to climb these hills using public transport from somewhere like Edinburgh, which along with Glasgow has the best public transport links in Scotland. The munros that are easy to do in a day would be lucky to get very far into double figures.
Perth & Kinross council with their ridiculous parking rules and non existent public transport are helping to restrict access for many to the area in question. In an area where access has been hampered historically the more folk that make a noise about it the better.
It's plain to see that the OP is not causing any obstruction and common sense should be used.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby Sgurr » Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:22 pm

In Steverabones excellent collection of Munros by public transport, he merely says Carn Mairg etc. No Public Transport (Section 2)


http://steverabone.com/MunroWalker/munros_by_public_transport.htm
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby malky_c » Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:12 pm

You can get the train to Pitlochry then the bus to Kinloch Rannoch I think (although I haven't really kept up with timetables since Covid began). Then you could approach the hills from the north. No idea if there's enough time or whether you'd need an overnighter. Most hills are doable without a car if you are creative - it just depends how much time you have available and whether you have access to a car. If you do then some probably aren't worth the complication.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby Gleneagle5 » Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:35 pm

The lockdown/staycation has exposed the lack of infrastructure for visitors to Scotland. For too long likes of hillwalkers have had to park at laybyes or on grassy areas. No toilets or other facilities. The local authorities have ignored these issues and now complain that it's the visitors fault. I wouldn't mind paying £5 for decent parking and a washroom at the more popular spots.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby Sunset tripper » Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:48 pm

Sgurr wrote:In Steverabones excellent collection of Munros by public transport, he merely says Carn Mairg etc. No Public Transport (Section 2)


http://steverabone.com/MunroWalker/munros_by_public_transport.htm


Agreed. it is a fine guide by steverabone, he does admit though that he has not done all these munros by public transport and many of them require an overnight stay.

malky_c wrote:You can get the train to Pitlochry then the bus to Kinloch Rannoch I think (although I haven't really kept up with timetables since Covid began). Then you could approach the hills from the north. No idea if there's enough time or whether you'd need an overnighter. Most hills are doable without a car if you are creative - it just depends how much time you have available and whether you have access to a car. If you do then some probably aren't worth the complication.


If you are very very creative all munros can be done without a car and without public transport :D

I've done a few myself by public transport, and yes it generally takes a lot more time which can be good if there is somewhere to chill and get a couple of beers. Aviemore is good for this for me as it has reasonable public transport links and some half decent pubs and food places.

The problem in this case is that Perth & Kinross who should have been doing a lot more to sort out the access issues to these hills that already existed, have actually made it worse.
Not only do they appeared to have washed their hands of that problem, they are now making access more difficult themselves. The folk in the glen who do their best to deter access to these hills anyway, must be rubbing their hands with glee at the assistance they are getting from P&K council. :(
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby Giant Stoneater » Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:30 pm

Re hills by public transport.
I have done over a 100 Munros by public transport and have found it relatively easy to get about, it calls for a fair bit of planning but i have not had any problems over the years plus you need a tent for when you are creative and linking multiple hills together.
Below is just a few trips by public transport that i have done
Mullardoch Dozen.
Fannichs plus some smaller hills..
Attadale to Struy over the hills.
Knoydart to Glenfinnan over the hills.
Blair Atholl to Aviemore over the hills.
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby Sunset tripper » Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:35 pm

Giant Stoneater wrote:Re hills by public transport.
I have done over a 100 Munros by public transport and have found it relatively easy to get about, it calls for a fair bit of planning but i have not had any problems over the years plus you need a tent for when you are creative and linking multiple hills together.
Below is just a few trips by public transport that i have done
Mullardoch Dozen.
Fannichs plus some smaller hills..
Attadale to Struy over the hills.
Knoydart to Glenfinnan over the hills.
Blair Atholl to Aviemore over the hills.


Some great trips there Stoneater. I find the longer trips like Dalwhinnie to Spean Bridge or your Knoydart trip as far easier to do by public transport, mainly because you are going to have a few days to spare and time isn't really an issue.

Of course it also varies a lot depending where you live and what the transport links are like. For day trips, generally, it's hard for public transport to compete with the car because with the freedom of the car the options are endless. If I have plenty time, it is good to have something to eat and drink and chill out on the train or even the bus after a day out. :D

I have to admit public transport trips are usually the most memorable but not always for good reasons. :D
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Re: Parking Fine at Glen Lyon!!! :-(

Postby malky_c » Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:36 pm

Sunset tripper wrote:The problem in this case is that Perth & Kinross who should have been doing a lot more to sort out the access issues to these hills that already existed, have actually made it worse.
Not only do they appeared to have washed their hands of that problem, they are now making access more difficult themselves. The folk in the glen who do their best to deter access to these hills anyway, must be rubbing their hands with glee at the assistance they are getting from P&K council. :(

I wouldn't argue with that - my post was really on a tangent that had little to do with the original thread.

I can't think of any other comparable road (it isn't that busy down there compared to the Rowardenan road for example) that has a clearway on it. I thought these had been justified due to logging activities, but it seems like over-reach to me.
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