Stalking In Glen Lyon

[davekeiller]

@Sarahleslie1
You have the legal right to park in a safe and legal place and to walk across the estate on any day of the week.

At this time of year, there may be deer stalking going on (it's very unusual for this to happen on a Sunday). If that is the case, the estate can make a reasonable request that you stay on paths or avoid areas where stalking is occurring in order to keep everyone safe.

Trouble is the estate are uncooperative, so if you ask them which areas to avoid they'll try and tell you that the whole estate is effectively out of bounds. You are perfectly within your rights to conclude that this "advice" is at odds with what the law actually says and ignore it.

[AyrshireAlps]

Agreed Dave, they're at it.

Tell the harassing estate worrker that if he's so confident, then call the police. They always chance it that you don't know the access laws.

Entitled a*ses.

[sarahleslie1]

@Sarahleslie1
You have the legal right to park in a safe and legal place and to walk across the estate on any day of the week.

At this time of year, there may be deer stalking going on (it's very unusual for this to happen on a Sunday). If that is the case, the estate can make a reasonable request that you stay on paths or avoid areas where stalking is occurring in order to keep everyone safe.

Trouble is the estate are uncooperative, so if you ask them which areas to avoid they'll try and tell you that the whole estate is effectively out of bounds. You are perfectly within your rights to conclude that this "advice" is at odds with what the law actually says and ignore it.

Thanks, that is basically the conclusion I'd come to! It sounds like it's worth speaking to the Access Officer for the area. Such a shame, we're so lucky in Scotland to have the hills open for considerate walkers, not fair for big landowners to be trying to block it!

[Girl Outdoors]

Thanks, that is basically the conclusion I'd come to! It sounds like it's worth speaking to the Access Officer for the area. Such a shame, we're so lucky in Scotland to have the hills open for considerate walkers, not fair for big landowners to be trying to block it!

I think its important to stand our ground and not let them get away with it. And as posted earlier in this thread to file written complaints to the access officer if you experience direct harassment yourselves.

My experience from south of the border with obstructed footpaths is that nothing will happen if you dont complain and then to keep at it until the obstruction is removed.

[Chris Henshall]

Not being silly here but it sounds like it would be in order for someone - perhaps someone on this site - to organise several large groups of people to climb these hills using a variety of routes at some time in September. I seem to remember that something similar happened in 1932 on Kinder Scout and it changed the conversation permanently.

[Navvarr]

That does sound like a good idea, but perhaps a better idea would be to encourage people to continue to venture onto these hills in a responsible manner and if they are challenged to invite the challenger to phone the police.

More to the point though, a complaint should be filed with the access officer detailing the nature of the challenge, the problem it seems is that people moan but don't challenge and before you know it these little fiefdoms become the norm.

I would encourage people to venture onto these Munros, they are a fantastic walk and if challenged make sure you make that complaint to the access officer.

[Chris Henshall]

Complaining might work over several years but, given a discussion on this site which mentioned the possible manipulation of local parking regulation by the estate in concert with the local authority, I suspect that organising large numbers of people to go for a walk (and threatening to repeat the exercise) is much more likely to encourage the estate to behave in a reasonable fashion. Maybe everyone could sing "The Manchester Rambler" or "Cap in Hand" during the walk?
I have, in this context, just gone onto the estate's website and read, amongst lots of other verbiage, the statement that, "Responsible access is a public privilege." - so I e-mailed them and pointed out that it is actually a legally established right rather than a privilege. If you want to do the same, the relevant bit of the website is at https://www.chesthill.com/hillwalking-access/ and the estate's e-mail address is info@chesthill.com.

[ChrisButch]

That does sound like a good idea, but perhaps a better idea would be to encourage people to continue to venture onto these hills in a responsible manner and if they are challenged to invite the challenger to phone the police.

More to the point though, a complaint should be filed with the access officer detailing the nature of the challenge, the problem it seems is that people moan but don't challenge and before you know it these little fiefdoms become the norm.

I would encourage people to venture onto these Munros, they are a fantastic walk and if challenged make sure you make that complaint to the access officer.

That's fine and dandy as long as you have the chutzpah to stand up to the challenge and respond robustly. Many of us don't. We go on to the hills, among other things, to escape this sort of thing: and if something like this should happen, our first response is to avoid confrontation, and if that means complying with an illicit demand, so be it. So the group mini-Kinder (with media coverage) might well involve people who couldn't cope with it on their own.

[Navvarr]

There's no need for a major confrontation- just a quiet insistance that they're in the wrong. I do suspect there is local authority manipulation regarding the parking restrictions and to that end perhaps contacting local councillors might let them know about the strength of opinion on this.
It really comes down to people reporting issues as they arise and challenging this sort of behaviour.

[Sunset tripper]

The P&K access officers position regarding the car park being locked off is - there is nothing they can do about that as the estate is not breaching the land reform act by shutting the car park.

The estate and P&K are saying this estate because of its size and geography is a special case, and no one can agree on how to deal with it.

Personally I'm not overly bothered whether I visit it again or not. I guess most folk are just there to bag the 4 hills and are not interested in the politics, which is fair enough. The only thing that doesn't sit easy is that other estates might try something similar.

I have contacted the access officer but don't hold out much hope for any change. The most disappointing thing for me is that P & K appear to be condoning the estates position with their clearway policing tactics and the estate delights in telling you that you will be fined for parking in the Glen even if this isn't strictly true.

An idea like the kinder scout scenario sounds great but in reality I don't think enough people are really bothered.

[Sunset tripper]

I have, in this context, just gone onto the estate's website and read, amongst lots of other verbiage, the statement that, "Responsible access is a public privilege." - so I e-mailed them and pointed out that it is actually a legally established right rather than a privilege. If you want to do the same, the relevant bit of the website is at https://www.chesthill.com/hillwalking-access/ and the estate's e-mail address is info@chesthill.com.[/size]

Hi Chris. I have emailed the estate more than once with no reply. It appears they have little interest in discussing it apart from when bullying people on the ground.

I would suggest you email the access officer who has at least replied, but maybe P&K need pressed a bit more on these issues regarding where they actually stand and what they are trying to achieve.

[Alex W]

Glen Lyon has been a notoriously bad estate regarding access for walkers for a long time. I can remember as a teenager (and that wasn't last week) going to Glen Lyon with some trepidation after hearing stories from my father and his walking buddies about confrontation with estate managers. I was last there about two years ago, it seems not much has changed.

It is such a shame. It's a beautiful area and many other private estates deal with access for walkers and cyclists with none of the conflict. I'm just back from a couple of days on the Ardverickie estate and it is so obviously welcoming to visitors who want to go there without any obvious detriment to commercial management of the estate itself. You read their website and it sounds like they actively want to show it off.

[Laurabaillie88]

I was planning on doing four in Glen Lyon tomorrow but guessing I’m best passing on it to avoid any car parking aggro. Thanks for the heads up.

[Chris Henshall]

Hi Chris. I have emailed the estate more than once with no reply. It appears they have little interest in discussing it apart from when bullying people on the ground.
I would suggest you email the access officer who has at least replied, but maybe P&K need pressed a bit more on these issues regarding where they actually stand and what they are trying to achieve.

Evening Sunset.
Strangely I haven't received a reply either. I was up at the head of Glen Lyon (around Loch Lyon) last week and it was beautiful, quiet and seemingly, there were no access problems; I was able to park and take off into the hills with no problem as, of course, the land is owned by a different estate.
You're probably right about contacting the access officer - except I've had no issues with this estate myself; the only time I was there was in October, 2007 and two of us camped up near the summit of Creag Mhòr (Meall na Aighean) with no problem. I suspect, though, that contacting access officers and the like will be ineffective by comparison with what might be called direct (though perfectly legal) action. I'd offer to organise something myself if I didn't live more than 500 miles away...

[Gareth Harper]

Glen Lyon has been a notoriously bad estate regarding access for walkers for a long time.

Glen Lyon Estate is at the Fortingall end of Glen Lyon. I’ve not heard of any access issues there.

Presumably you mean North Chesthill Estate Alex – who basically don’t want the general public on ‘their’ land.

Also the other year I popped up Cam Chreag, I parked in the excellent car park, near Innerwick in Glen Lyon, complete with spotless toilet facilities provided for, without charge, by the Meggernie Estate.