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Lost in Lairig Ghru

Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby Caberfeidh » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:35 am

Lovely picture of the moon over the high Cairngorms there, that reminds me of a time I walked from Corrour over the tops to Glen Feshie at night in snow, with all the snowy peaks laid out before me. It was a silent world but I had a tune playing incessantly in my head; "I Shall Be Released" by Joe Cocker. Which is a classic rock ballad, but not something you want stuck in your head all day/night. The finest display of moonlight and cloud I ever saw was one night in Glen Coe, after the Clachaig had shut, I met a couple of blokes and we sat up the hillside and drank beer watching the moon come up over Aonach Dubh and Bidean nam Bian while a huge white cloud slid across the hilltop and cascaded down the face like a gigantic waterfall, the cloud backlit by the moon, billowing slowly over the ledges and cliff faces, before silently and magically disappearing just before the floor of the glen. Photos would have been impossible, or just a bit rubbish, like these of a moonbow over Lewis, from years ago.

Lunar Rainbow Lewis 2003#2#r.jpg
Lunar Rainbow, Isle of Lewis #1


Lunar Rainbow Lewis 2003#r.jpg
Lunar Rainbow, Isle of Lewis #2


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Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby prog99 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:14 am

In that case you are the one who is lost this time :) its not the cairngorms!
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Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby Caberfeidh » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:23 am

prog99 wrote:In that case you are the one who is lost this time :) its not the cairngorms!


Bugger! You see how easy it is to get lost?! Someone call out the MRT, I thought I was back on top of the Devil's Point, now I haven't a clue... [Though please, not Aberdeen MRT, they are the only team I ever heard of who needed rescued by another MRT - Braemar - but that is another story... :lol: ]

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Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby prog99 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:54 pm

It’s Ben Alder so easily confused.
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Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby Sunset tripper » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:43 pm

prog99 wrote:It’s Ben Alder so easily confused.

Crackin' picture. Cheers :D
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Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby allanglens » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:34 am

50 years.

Probably an appropriate place for this : BBC News - The worst mountain disaster in British history
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-59048640
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Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby Caberfeidh » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:15 am

allanglens wrote:50 years.

Probably an appropriate place for this : BBC News - The worst mountain disaster in British history
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-59048640


Unfortunately I believe we have drifted into a condition where this situation could happen again. People rely on bits of paper, certificates issued after a short course, to signify that someone is experienced and knows what they are doing. People rely on technology; mobile phones and GPS devices, to navigate and communicate, and people push the limits by bivouacing on summits, or camping in wild weather, assuming they will be rescued or never need rescued, if the weather worsens.
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Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby al78 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:16 pm

Caberfeidh wrote:People rely on technology; mobile phones and GPS devices, to navigate and communicate, and people push the limits by bivouacing on summits, or camping in wild weather, assuming they will be rescued or never need rescued, if the weather worsens.


Do you think risk compensation exists to that extent? Dealing with wild weather is unpleasant at the best of times, so I don't understand the mentality of someone thinking there is nothing to worry about because there is a rescue service available. Getting into a situation where rescue is needed means you are in a situation you really don't want to be in, so I'd have thought anyone would want to avoid it, resuce available or not. As for the risk compensation argument itself, you could use it to claim that better and more comfortable equipment which reduces risk results in people taking less care or making dubious decisions on the basis their equipment will bail them out, however I don't see that as a logical argument to avoid purchasing such equipment.
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Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby Caberfeidh » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:34 pm

al78 wrote: ...I don't understand the mentality of someone thinking there is nothing to worry about because there is a rescue service available. Getting into a situation where rescue is needed means you are in a situation you really don't want to be in, so I'd have thought anyone would want to avoid it, resuce available or not


There you go, using logic and rational thought - there are people who don't think like that, I have met them, and they will not listen to any argument against what they believe. :shock:
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Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby madprof » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:19 pm

Caberfeidh wrote:There you go, using logic and rational thought - there are people who don't think like that, I have met them, and they will not listen to any argument against what they believe. :shock:


I once met a person on the top of Helvellyn who tested out the cornices by jumping on them.
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Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby Giant Stoneater » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:23 pm

Caberfeidh wrote:
al78 wrote: ...I don't understand the mentality of someone thinking there is nothing to worry about because there is a rescue service available. Getting into a situation where rescue is needed means you are in a situation you really don't want to be in, so I'd have thought anyone would want to avoid it, resuce available or not


There you go, using logic and rational thought - there are people who don't think like that, I have met them, and they will not listen to any argument against what they believe. :shock:


In the Dolomites with bright blue skies and sunshine we were standing at a signpost with multiple directions to various places when a German asked where the mountain hut was.
I pointed out to him that it was quite a few km's away, he replied but it is on the map as here i replied if you look at the signpost it states how far to the mountain hut but he insisted that he was in the right place and kept pointing to the map.
I pointed out the various things on the map that gave a big clue that he was not near the mountain hut and the signpost which stated the correct direction, it took about another 10 minutes convincing him he was wrong, the look on his wife's face summed up things.
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Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby AJ01 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:23 am

There is an extensive article on Wikipedia about this tragedy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairngorm_Plateau_disaster

and an archived copy of an article published in The Scotsman ten years ago which gives a more personal view from one of the bereaved parents.
https://web.archive.org/web/20151222113613/http://www.scotsman.com/news/forty-years-after-diane-dudgeon-died-on-a-frozen-hillside-her-father-reveals-the-pain-of-not-know-what-really-happened-1-1985733
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Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby al78 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:24 pm

AJ01 wrote:There is an extensive article on Wikipedia about this tragedy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairngorm_Plateau_disaster

and an archived copy of an article published in The Scotsman ten years ago which gives a more personal view from one of the bereaved parents.
https://web.archive.org/web/20151222113613/http://www.scotsman.com/news/forty-years-after-diane-dudgeon-died-on-a-frozen-hillside-her-father-reveals-the-pain-of-not-know-what-really-happened-1-1985733


Just had a quick read and the route they were taking is quite a full-on route even in summer. Spectacular but intense. I've considered doing some sort of N-S-N traverse of the plateau myself. I am quite fit but I would need plenty of time to train and build up stamina for such a route. I can't understand why anyone would think guiding a group of schoolkids on that route with little or no mountain experience in winter conditions with no more than eight hours of daylight, and when poor weather was forecast. You can say what you want about excessive health and safety these days but this is the sort of thing that can happen when you can't be bothered. I guess things were different in the 70's.
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Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby Scraggygoat » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:28 pm

If we get back to the OP, ‘apparently’ the rescued individual had no paper map, was reliant on electronic navigation aids, had no understanding of the basic topography around them, but had a very detailed route plan….a list of multiple gpx points.

‘Apparently’ That list of gpx came from Walkhighlands.

To add more; ‘apparently’ there have been multiple Cairngorms rescues in recent years where the unfortunates were similarly navigational my challenged, but had gpx downloads from Walkhighlands……or poor resolution print outs of Walkhighlands routes.

If you read the cairngorm tragedy report, many mistakes were made. But one party navigated to the Bothy, and the other party got bloody close in very poor conditions (I talked to someone whom was on the hill that day only a couple of Kms away).

By contrast recent Walkhighlanders being rescued despite modern tech, spent in this case days not knowing where they were, or were found significantly off route.

So maybe caber’ has a point…
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Re: Lost in Lairig Ghru

Postby matt_outandabout » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:48 pm

So maybe caber’ has a point…


He does.

The thing is, if folk had (skills), paper map & compass AND the new digital navigation aids, things should be safer. I have a GPS buried at the bottom of my pack which I have twice pulled out, fired up and got a really, really accurate fix on where I was. Add in the map and compass, and what back in the day would have been 10-20 mins of 'am I here, am I not' wandering and musing, became 2 mins of 'we are HERE'....

My other concern is that modern gear increases comfort and safety, but only up until a point. I too watch the crazy folks in (usually cheap Chinese) tents camping on summit ridges in wild weather, when the sensible ones among us buried their tent down in the valley a few hundred metres below in an old fank... Modern kit compensates for poor decisions, poor mountaincraft and poor campcraft - but that help diminishes when it goes pear shaped. Fall in a river and no amount of uber down, fancy pants waterproof and on-point seasonal colour will replace having a set of spare layers with you...That tent on the 900m summit ridge being destroyed at 2am in a wet squall with all your kit still spread out to blow away from what was the tent entrance...(etc).
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