walkhighlands

This forum is for general discussion about walking and scrambling... If writing a report or sharing your experiences from a route, please use the other boards.

Help from a Gaelic speaker please

Help from a Gaelic speaker please


Postby Clach Liath » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:58 pm

I have a friend who is doing some research for an article on the different words for the noun "ski“ ("a ski" not "to ski") in European languages.

He wonders what the Gaelic word is. Google Translate suggests that is may be "Sgitheadh". A sign at the Cairnwell ski centre suggests that it may be "Sgithidh". I have also seen evidence that it is "Sgith".

It may be that any of these alternatives may be correct. I imagine that Gaelic did not originally have a word for "ski". What is the correct answer please?
User avatar
Clach Liath
Mountaineer
 
Posts: 634
Munros:282   Corbetts:82
Fionas:37   Donalds:37
Sub 2000:129   Hewitts:240
Wainwrights:214   
Joined: Sep 2, 2011
Location: Yorkshire
Walk wish-list

Re: Help from a Gaelic speaker please

Postby nigheandonn » Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:56 pm

The faclair beag gives 'sgì' for ski-the-object, and 'sgìtheadh' (genitive* 'sgithidh') for the act of skiing. You can have a look for yourself at https://www.faclair.com/ - there are a couple of variant spellings, but those are the main ones.

'Sgith' is less likely because it's very similar to the spelling of a common word meaning 'tired', but it's a perfectly good representation of the sound of the English word, and Gaelic spelling can be a bit of a free for all round the edges.

*Grammar lesson if required - genitive is the 'belonging to' version of the word, like adding 's to Bob to get 'Bob's book', or 'of the' to get 'the hair of the dog'. Sgìtheadh=skiing, leanad sgìthidh=slope of skiing.
User avatar
nigheandonn
Wanderer
 
Posts: 1661
Munros:19   Corbetts:9
Fionas:7   Donalds:26+10
Sub 2000:64   Hewitts:133
Wainwrights:214   Islands:34
Joined: Jul 7, 2011
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Help from a Gaelic speaker please

Postby Skyelines » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:22 pm

It's a shame that sometimes adopting a word and a spelling based on the phonetic sound of the English version doesn't really do justice to the Gaelic language.

A ski is a plank of wood for sliding down a hill so if it was down to me to make up a Gaelic word for a ski I would go for something like "board (for) sliding" which I think would end up in Gaelic as "bord-speilearachd".
Skyelines
Wanderer
 
Posts: 598
Joined: Jun 10, 2016

Re: Help from a Gaelic speaker please

Postby nigheandonn » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:42 pm

English just adopted the Norwegian word, although in that case they kept the spelling and changed the pronunciation ('shee').

I mean, you can moan about Gaelic just transliterating English in words like television, but English is generally just transliterating Greek or Latin, so why not. I don't think many languages take the Icelandic position.
User avatar
nigheandonn
Wanderer
 
Posts: 1661
Munros:19   Corbetts:9
Fionas:7   Donalds:26+10
Sub 2000:64   Hewitts:133
Wainwrights:214   Islands:34
Joined: Jul 7, 2011
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Help from a Gaelic speaker please

Postby Clach Liath » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:11 pm

Thanks both for your responses. My (Austrian) friend is grateful for your help.

You may be interested in the context of the enquiry. Apparently the spelling for ski in German is not clear cut. A debate has been running since the 1890s on how to write 'ski' in German. Is it "Schi" (which, as nigheandonn says, reproduces the Norwegian phonetic correctly – "shee") or "Ski" (which would be pronounced in German as "skee") and therefore does not reflect the Norwegian pronunciation correctly? My friend has researched and collected information from numerous sources and will publish, in German, his conclusions. It raises quite few etymological, historical and sporting issues and some degree of semantics!

Specifically, for example, the question of correct spelling even also led to discussions within the National Socialist regime, where several institutions used "Schi" while others used "Ski". The question of the correct spelling was finally decided at the highest level by Adolf Hitler himself! My friend considers it "unbelievable and almost ridiculous that they had time, energy and focus to discuss such things in 1941 while the war against USSR raged. They obviously cared whether their troops to Stalingrad went on "Schis" or on "Skis". A very German problem." The sources on this include original papers held in the archives from the Führerhauptquartier written by the dictator's bureau chief.

But clearly Herr Hitler's direction on the matter has not, in practice, been the last of the matter.

Thanks again.
User avatar
Clach Liath
Mountaineer
 
Posts: 634
Munros:282   Corbetts:82
Fionas:37   Donalds:37
Sub 2000:129   Hewitts:240
Wainwrights:214   
Joined: Sep 2, 2011
Location: Yorkshire
Walk wish-list

Re: Help from a Gaelic speaker please

Postby NickyRannoch » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:41 pm

Sgi (no stràc) will be the "official" word in the dictionary currently being developed at Sabhal Mòr Ostaig.

For those of you who prefer something a bit more literal cas-sneachda or snow foot will also be in the dictionary.

When speaking my preference is definitely to go with the path of least resistance which means saying sgi.

Gaelic has a rich history of incorporating Scots, English and Norse words into the language so I dont see any issue with doing that in this instance.
User avatar
NickyRannoch
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 1738
Munros:224   Corbetts:3
Fionas:4   Donalds:1
Sub 2000:9   
Islands:17
Joined: Aug 21, 2009
Location: Carse of Gowrie, Perthshire

Re: Help from a Gaelic speaker please

Postby BigTed » Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:31 am

I would suggest just using "ski" rather than any made up gaelic version. Back in the 1970s. as a child, when my aunt visited my mum, both native speakers, they would speak English when the rest of the family was around. Late at night they chatted in gaelic and just incorporated English words as required. So if I, as a non speaker, was listening it would sound like "bla, bla, television, bla. bla bla etc.

There is nothing wrong with languages incorporating word from other languages. English does it all the time.
BigTed
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Aug 18, 2017

Re: Help from a Gaelic speaker please

Postby WalkWithWallace » Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:14 pm

Calum Maclean is really approachable and is usually happy to help with any Gaelic queries. If you're on Twitter or Instagram ping him a message.

https://twitter.com/caldamac?t=31L-WxT3PEMn2bXZ47SH0w&s=09

https://instagram.com/caldamac?utm_medium=copy_link
User avatar
WalkWithWallace
Munro compleatist
 
Posts: 1077
Munros:119   Corbetts:192
Fionas:57   Donalds:36+0
Hewitts:41
Wainwrights:29   Islands:25
Joined: Jan 27, 2019
Location: www.youtube.com/c/walkwithwallace
Walk wish-list

Re: Help from a Gaelic speaker please

Postby nigheandonn » Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:13 pm

Yes, but English incorporates them using its own alphabet and spelling conventions - television, not τῆλε-vīsiōn, because English doesn't use Greek letters or Latin length markings.

Gaelic uses an 18 letter Roman alphabet with no v, hence 'telebhisean'. And no k - sg- represents the sound represented by sk- in English. That's fine - adaptations like that are exactly how languages do incorporate words
User avatar
nigheandonn
Wanderer
 
Posts: 1661
Munros:19   Corbetts:9
Fionas:7   Donalds:26+10
Sub 2000:64   Hewitts:133
Wainwrights:214   Islands:34
Joined: Jul 7, 2011
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Help from a Gaelic speaker please

Postby NickyRannoch » Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:00 am

Remember proper languages like English incorporate words. Gaelic has made up versions of words :wink:

Reminds me of a friend asking why there isn't a Gaelic word for helicopter and why we just use the English word :crazy:
User avatar
NickyRannoch
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 1738
Munros:224   Corbetts:3
Fionas:4   Donalds:1
Sub 2000:9   
Islands:17
Joined: Aug 21, 2009
Location: Carse of Gowrie, Perthshire

Re: Help from a Gaelic speaker please

Postby ScotFinn65 » Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:28 am

NickyRannoch wrote:Remember proper languages like English incorporate words. Gaelic has made up versions of words :wink:

Reminds me of a friend asking why there isn't a Gaelic word for helicopter and why we just use the English word :crazy:



Proper???
User avatar
ScotFinn65
Hill Bagger
 
Posts: 227
Munros:119   Corbetts:2
Sub 2000:2   
Islands:3
Joined: Oct 10, 2017
Location: Lempäälä - Finland
Walk wish-list

Re: Help from a Gaelic speaker please

Postby rogasb » Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:56 am

Reminds me of a friend asking why there isn't a Gaelic word for helicopter and why we just use the English word :crazy:[/quote]


In the Solomon Islands it was "Big fella mixmaster belong Jesus Christ"
User avatar
rogasb
Ambler
 
Posts: 38
Munros:1   
Sub 2000:6   Hewitts:1
Wainwrights:1   
Joined: Jan 10, 2011
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Help from a Gaelic speaker please

Postby davekeiller » Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:30 pm

@ScotFinn65, I think it was a lighthearted comment about the way that languages like Gaelic, Welsh etc. are viewed by many.
davekeiller
 
Posts: 984
Munros:154   Corbetts:31
Fionas:4   Donalds:3
Sub 2000:11   Hewitts:19
Wainwrights:20   
Joined: Oct 25, 2013

Re: Help from a Gaelic speaker please

Postby Munro22 » Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:37 pm

That was an interesting conversation.
I also like to talk about languages.
Munro22
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Jan 20, 2021
Location: between the Black Forest and the River Rhine




Can you help support Walkhighlands?


Our forum is free from adverts - your generosity keeps it running.
Can you help support Walkhighlands and this community by donating by direct debit?



Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests