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When can you claim the Munro

Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby Chris Henshall » Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:38 pm

One of the things which attracted me to climbing, hill-walking and mountaineering in my teens was the anarchism which existed in those times. This was, to be honest, more of a feature of gritstone climbing and living in Manchester in the 1970s rather than climbing Munros but an anarchic approach is still, surely valid? This means that, if you want to claim all the Munros by helicopter, you can do it. In the eyes of many, it won't be as valid as walking up the hills but the beauty of what everyone here who walks up Munros is doing is that it doesn't matter a bugger.
I happen to think that parking at the nearest car park and just slogging up and down the nearest Munros by the shortest available route is a bit reductionist - but that's just one opinion and, in the end, you've got to decide for yourself. The anarchy of climbing (or, indeed, walking up Munros) is worth preserving!
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Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby Dave Hewitt » Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:41 pm

Sunset tripper wrote:I'm pretty sure the number that have done all munros but are not on the list was thought to be 10% at a very high estimate

As one of those who studies the lists and statistics (and has done for years, although less so latterly), the suggestion of 10% extra for unlisted folk is the *low* estimate. Some researchers reckon it's as much as 25% extra, but personally I think that's a bit too high. Goodness knows, really - by definition it's impossible to know - but somewhere in the 15-20% range feels quite likely. I've got a partial list of several hundred unlisted Munroists (if you can have a list of unlisted people!) and one thing that's interesting is that the proportion of women in that - admittedly from a much smaller sample - is about 25% compared with (at the last count) 18% in the main list.

The whole thing is very complicated and vague, though - eg there are several people in the list twice for the same round. That's without even beginning to get into people who maybe haven't done anywhere near a full round but who are listed anyway - eg I know someone who in turn knew someone who basically wasn't much of a hillwalker but who suddenly appeared in the list. My friend's estimate was that they might have done 20-odd Munros. (I'm not saying for a minute that there should be any formal policing and proof of completion required - heaven forbid - just that this kind of thing does appear to happen, perhaps because a round of Munros looks good on the CV.)

Incidentally, the SMC is still very much in charge of the list, and rightly so in my opinion given all the work it's put in down the decades. The "people list" of completers was a Grampian Club thing from about 1959 to 1970 (courtesy of Eric Maxwell, one of the forgotten heroes of Scottish hillgoing), but has been maintained by the SMC since that time. To an extent I agree with Moriarty - doing a round of Munros has become so commonplace (and certainly much easier than say 25-30 years ago) that it's a less notable achievement in broader terms than it once was, although of course very significant for any individual who does it. There was discussion when the people list reached 1000 whether a line should be drawn; clearly that hasn't happened, but there could well still be a case for this, say when the "official" figure reaches 10,000.
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Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby Chris Henshall » Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:48 pm

"...just that this kind of thing does appear to happen, perhaps because a round of Munros looks good on the CV." That is really sad.
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Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby Sunset tripper » Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:50 pm

Dave Hewitt wrote:As one of those who studies the lists and statistics (and has done for years, although less so latterly), the suggestion of 10% extra for unlisted folk is the *low* estimate. Some researchers reckon it's as much as 25% extra, but personally I think that's a bit too high. Goodness knows, really - by definition it's impossible to know - but somewhere in the 15-20% range feels quite likely.


Cheers Dave, so most likely above 700 and up to maybe 1400?

If you take out the imposters who think it is a good thing to have on their CV :roll: and the folk who genuinely think they have been on every summit but haven't, the number comes down a bit again.

As you say impossible to know the true number.
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Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby Dave Hewitt » Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:33 pm

Sunset tripper wrote:Cheers Dave, so most likely above 700 and up to maybe 1400?

Yes, maybe, but as you say it's impossible to know. The whole thing is a very inexact science - eg it's hard to keep track of stats because quite a few people have for whatever reason decided to go into the list a long time after having actually completed, in some cases several decades later - so there's always a risk of double-counting such people by accident. One of my regular hill sidekicks completed a round in 1990 but has a higher number in the list than me and I didn't get round to completing until 2007 - he just suddenly, at some point after that, fancied putting his name in. Lots of examples of that kind of thing.

If you take out the imposters who think it is a good thing to have on their CV

I think there are also plenty of non-imposters who think it's a good thing to have on the CV!

PS - Even in the early days there were plenty of unlisted people - I know of around 15 folk who completed by the time the list reached 100 and who aren't included. I don't think for a minute that's all of them - there could easily be 25 or more unlisted people on top of the first 100 - eg there's evidence to suggest that the first listed woman, Paddy Wells (Mrs Hirst in the list), was preceded by several years by the unlisted Molly Fitzgibbon. But it's impossible to be sure with such things - the years pass, people die, documents get thrown away and the research, enjoyable though it is, gets ever harder.
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Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby icemandan » Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:52 pm

On a side note, your Avatar says, Munro Compleatist, but the Munro count is only 281, I'm sure this is an oversight, not trying to provoke an argument.

Don’t know why it’s got me down as a compleater. I’m one off (Beinn Fionnlaidh). Not doing it for CV purposes or faking anything - just been doing a few a year for a very long time…Got to about 150 and thought - I could actually do this.

The question was prompted by meeting a guy who was using an e-bike and wondering whether it counts as mechanical assistance (I think it does but each to their own),
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Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby icemandan » Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:52 pm

On a side note, your Avatar says, Munro Compleatist, but the Munro count is only 281, I'm sure this is an oversight, not trying to provoke an argument.

Don’t know why it’s got me down as a compleater. I’m one off (Beinn Fionnlaidh). Not doing it for CV purposes or faking anything - just been doing a few a year for a very long time…Got to about 150 and thought - I could actually do this.

The question was prompted by meeting a guy who was using an e-bike and wondering whether it counts as mechanical assistance (I think it does but each to their own),
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Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby Dave Hewitt » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:05 am

icemandan wrote:Don’t know why it’s got me down as a compleater. I’m one off (Beinn Fionnlaidh).

I think it's an automated thing - it has me down as a "Mountaineer", which I'm certainly not.

Good luck with your completion Munro in due course - which Beinn Fhionnlaidh is it? They're both good hills, particularly the Etive one.
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Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby icemandan » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:30 am

Good luck with your completion Munro in due course - which Beinn Fhionnlaidh is it? They're both good hills, particularly the Etive one.

The Appin one. I’m making an event of it and can’t imagine many friends making the trek from Glen Affric. (Was looking at an old map of that area and it’s amazing how much less remote it seemed before the Mullardoch Dam was built).
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Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby simon-b » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:51 am

The original question is an age old topic, of course, with no definitive answer, but this thread does raise some interesting points.
As far as compleaters who don't register goes, I'm one of them. I've also done the Yorkshire 3 Peaks three times without ever making my official claim. So I'm sure there are a good number of compleaters who don't show up in known statistics.
Another point is the old 'climb every hill from sea level' scenario, generally mentioned humorously regarding the Munros. But I wonder if anyone has actually taken on the challenge to climb each of the 282 individually by direct ascent. This is a challenge sometimes taken on with the 214 Wainwrights, and I have done that myself (although admittedly not all from sea level). Obviously this would be a much tougher test with the Munros, but I'd be interested to know, has anyone taken this on?
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Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby Pointless Parasite » Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:12 am

Dave Hewitt wrote:I think it's an automated thing - it has me down as a "Mountaineer", which I'm certainly not.


It happened when Paul added 'Stravaiging' to the list of activities, which caused the list to become muddled up. You can change it from the user control panel, although I quite like stravaiging (wondering aimlessly) :lol:
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Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby weedavie » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:15 am

I was fairly disgusted when I saw an e-bike on Carn an Tuirc. It seemed invasive. if it's ok, why not a moped or a dirt bike? But it was there, so fair enough, count the Munro.
On the other hand I was just amused when I met two lads with mountain bikes on a frozen Schiehallion. I'd come up the west ridge and I thought they'd carry on that way, but no, they started humping them back over the boulder field. I reckon they carried the bikes more than the other way round that day.
I once saw a paraglider come in over Cam Chreag, touch a foot and rise again, then appear to do the same on Beinn Chaorach. I'd be positive about his claims to have bagged the Corbetts.
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Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby al78 » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:28 pm

Moriarty wrote:Let's be honest, there are now over 7000 registered 1st rounds and possibly a few thousand more unregistered. It's not really an achievement of major distinction, even if it is important to individuals.


Depends on what you mean by "major distinction", maybe not in moutaineering circles compared to doing the seven summits, but I would say it is a significant achievement. You need to learn plenty of skills, know how to deal with ferocious weather (e.g. when it is right to press on or retreat), be very fit, and have good mental strength. All valuable transferrable skills to life in general.
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Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby prog99 » Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:40 pm

weedavie wrote:I was fairly disgusted when I saw an e-bike on Carn an Tuirc. It seemed invasive. if it's ok, why not a moped or a dirt bike? But it was there, so fair enough, count the Munro.

The estate regularly drive up that hill in their land rovers which I think trumps your ebike by some margin.
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Re: When can you claim the Munro

Postby al78 » Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:22 pm

weedavie wrote:I was fairly disgusted when I saw an e-bike on Carn an Tuirc. It seemed invasive. if it's ok, why not a moped or a dirt bike? But it was there, so fair enough, count the Munro.


An e-bike provides assistance only from a very modestly powered motor, it doesn't do all the work for you. As such, they are classified as bicycles by law so I would view them the same as any other bicycle.
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