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New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

New Highway Code rules and mountain areas


Postby simon-b » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:05 pm

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1037306/table-of-change-to-the-highway-code.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiO0d7Wwcr1AhUJa8AKHR2mBFoQFnoECAoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw39tEQEFbp5uDhj3pVmzs1N

The new highway code rules, in regard to safety of pedestrians, cyclists, and horse riders, make sense in urban areas, on roads with at least two lanes, and at junctions and roundabouts. But I foresee issues on narrow, single track country roads in places like the Highlands and the Lakes. A lot of us will have walked along roads like these at the start or finish of a walk, sometimes for several miles, and vehicles often won't have enough room to get past leaving the gap required according to the new rules. On some Highland roads, a vehicle could be stuck behind a cyclist for tens of miles if strictly obeying the rules. I believe that the rules also ask cyclists to let vehicles past where appropriate, but that can be a grey area very much open to interpretation. As someone who both walks and drives myself, and respects cyclists, I welcome the moves towards safety, but am also reminded of that Scottish road sign, "Frustration causes accidents".
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Re: New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

Postby nigheandonn » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:28 pm

That's what passing places are for, no? I don't think the guidance for single track roads is one of the parts which has changed.
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Re: New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

Postby WalkWithWallace » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:36 pm

I really can't see this being an issue or anything changing, you get the odd militant cyclist on the single track roads who won't budge but I find most cyclists pull in to allow you to pass safely and most motorists will slow down when there are walkers on the road. :?
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Re: New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

Postby al78 » Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:45 pm

If it is not safe to overtake then don't overtake. Unfortunately this does mean individuals with a narcissic self important power trip instinct are able to take great delight in inflicting control over others by deliberately obstructing them, but that is the price you pay for civility. Such individuals are not restricted to riding bicycles, SE England for example, particularly around the Horsham district, has high numbers of trundlebunnies and the spatially incompetant driving cars and walking dogs.

Speaking as a cyclist who used to cycle to work every day which was a 19 mile round trip mostly on country lanes, I can say that there is no gain having a motorist stuck behind you, and it is preferable to assist them in overtaking, so I will find a place to pull over if someone is stuck behind me for more than about 20-30 seconds (e.g. an entrance to a farm driveway). It is hard to believe a cyclist will deliberately hold up a driver for tens of miles, it would take an extreme dystopic personality and extreme bad luck combined, which statistically has an infinitesimally small probability.

As for walkers, no motorist in the Scottish highlands is going to be significantly slowed down by having to wait for an opportunity to get past. It is trivial to walk on a verge where one exists and the remote country roads in Scotland are not rammed full like southern England, so there will always be a gap in traffic to get past.
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Re: New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

Postby nigheandonn » Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:07 pm

I've made motorists wait for a passing place which is clearly in sight if the alternative is stopping completely, because getting going again on a hired bike that's too big for you is a nuisance. But I have also stopped if the next passing place is well ahead, in spite of the inconvenience - as al78 says, it's no fun having someone crawling along behind you.

(Also, go past if the cyclist obviously wants you to. I've pulled in tight to the side while crawling uphill, and ended up having to stop completely to force an overly polite car past, when stopping completely was what I was trying to avoid!)
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Re: New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

Postby AyrshireAlps » Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:09 am

I don't believe it's an issue, for the simple reason that the vast majority of folk haven't looked at a Highway Code for years, so will carry on in complete ignorance, making progress being their only rule.

Blanket rules can't cover every eventuality though, there's always a case for situational discrepancies. When biking, I'll always pull over to let a car pass, as rightly said above, no one wants a car behind them for longer than is necessary.
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Re: New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

Postby dav2930 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:09 pm

AyrshireAlps wrote:... there's always a case for situational discrepancies.

Moral particularism in a nutshell. Jonathan Dancy would be proud of you. :)
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Re: New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

Postby AyrshireAlps » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:50 pm

I had to google him! :-)
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Re: New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

Postby madprof » Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:39 pm

simon-b wrote:On some Highland roads, a vehicle could be stuck behind a cyclist for tens of miles if strictly obeying the rules.


I just want to add to the chorus of people saying the same sort of thing.

I've never encountered cyclists who did not pull into passing places for me on single track roads and I've always done this myself when cycling.

Having a car behind you when you're cycling is horrible!
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Re: New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

Postby ChrisButch » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:29 am

madprof wrote:
simon-b wrote:On some Highland roads, a vehicle could be stuck behind a cyclist for tens of miles if strictly obeying the rules.


I just want to add to the chorus of people saying the same sort of thing.

I've never encountered cyclists who did not pull into passing places for me on single track roads and I've always done this myself when cycling.

Having a car behind you when you're cycling is horrible!


In fact this situation is less likely to arise on single-track Highland roads than on narrow rural lanes in almost every other part of the UK. That's because formal passing places are constructed, surfaced and signed at regular intervals. Elsewhere, such as here in Devon, there are none. Whether overtaker or overtakee, passing is only possible by making use of field gate entrances, or the random widenings where generations of motor vehicles have squeezed past each other and worn down the hedge banks. I live on such a lane, and have to deal with this situation every time I leave the house, whether on the bike, driving, or on foot.
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Re: New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

Postby CharlesT » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:59 am

ChrisButch wrote:
madprof wrote:
simon-b wrote:On some Highland roads, a vehicle could be stuck behind a cyclist for tens of miles if strictly obeying the rules.


I just want to add to the chorus of people saying the same sort of thing.

I've never encountered cyclists who did not pull into passing places for me on single track roads and I've always done this myself when cycling.

Having a car behind you when you're cycling is horrible!


In fact this situation is less likely to arise on single-track Highland roads than on narrow rural lanes in almost every other part of the UK. That's because formal passing places are constructed, surfaced and signed at regular intervals. Elsewhere, such as here in Devon, there are none. Whether overtaker or overtakee, passing is only possible by making use of field gate entrances, or the random widenings where generations of motor vehicles have squeezed past each other and worn down the hedge banks. I live on such a lane, and have to deal with this situation every time I leave the house, whether on the bike, driving, or on foot.


Agreed. Those of us who live in rural areas are quite familiar with single track and narrow lanes and how to behave when using them. Giving way and acknowledging the courtesies extended by others who do so is second nature to the majority of us. As a road cyclist too I find that if I behave properly then most drivers do likewise and haven't had many problems riding in rural Oxfordshire.
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Re: New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

Postby simon-b » Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:24 pm

Thanks for the replies, and reassuring to hear a lot of the views regarding why the rules shouldn't present a problem. Hopefully the majority of drivers and cyclists will show the same example as WH members!

However, I have been stuck behind cyclists in Scotland who don't pull over at passing places, and in England been in a queue of traffic stuck behind a group continuing to ride two abreast despite the tailback they were creating. Of course, there are those drivers who don't show due respect to cyclists or pedestrians. When I walked into Wakefield today there were one or two drivers blissfully unaware of the rules to give way to pedestrians at junctions, or totally disregarding it. Overall, I agree that safety has to come first when making and interpreting rules.
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Re: New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

Postby CharlesT » Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:41 pm

Mostly sensible observations I agree, yet that old aphorism comes to mind.

"He was right as he went along, but was just as dead as if he'd been wrong"

Take care. 🙂
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Re: New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

Postby ChrisButch » Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:58 pm

CharlesT wrote:Mostly sensible observations I agree, yet that old aphorism comes to mind.

"He was right as he went along, but was just as dead as if he'd been wrong"

Take care. 🙂

Also on the aphorism front, one of the better comments I've seen on this in the press (most triggered by wildly inaccurate press reports of what the new HC actually says), was in a letter to the Guardian by the head of the RAC Foundation. He said that most of the Code can be summarised in seven words: 'Do as you would be done by'.

Perhaps worth adding that there has been no change in the law on such matters as safe overtaking distance, riding two abreast etc. The new HC simply seeks to clarify what had hitherto been ambiguous wording. Whether it succeeds in doing so remains to be seen.
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Re: New Highway Code rules and mountain areas

Postby al78 » Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:12 pm

simon-b wrote:However, I have been stuck behind cyclists in Scotland who don't pull over at passing places, and in England been in a queue of traffic stuck behind a group continuing to ride two abreast despite the tailback they were creating.


It could equally be argued the cyclists were not creating the tailback, the convoy of vehicles coming the other way was preventing overtaking and causing the tailback, and the convoy of vehicles behind were contributing to the tailback.

Cycling two abreast may have been the best decision. If they had singled out, motorists likely would have tried to squeeze past, putting the cyclists in danger. When it comes to overtaking which puts all the risk on the cyclist, the cyclist has every right to discourage it until they deem it safe for them. This is necessary until motorists are all able to judge 100% of the time when it is safe to overtake a vulnerable road user.

My safety trumps your convenience.
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