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Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Using an ice axe when there's no ice


Postby trailhombre » Fri May 06, 2022 7:41 am

A thought occurred to me this morning: if you're going up or down somewhere really steep, say Ben More (the one next to Crianlarich), would it be better/safer to take an ice axe for balance, or use poles and adjust the length as necessary? It makes sense in winter, but what about other times of the year when there's no snow or ice?
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Re: Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Postby prog99 » Fri May 06, 2022 8:19 am

I've seen some archive photos taken in scotland (victorian/edwardian era) where they have alpenstocks in the summer. They weren't online but might see if I can find them.
As for your question, a modern ice axe is probably too short for what you are thinking of and its what poles are good for.
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Re: Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Postby Kenny Raeside » Fri May 06, 2022 8:43 am

I’ve been on some slopes / scrambles recently where I thought that an ice axe may be handy to arrest a slip should it happen.
Ben More / Stob Binein / Cruach Ardrain .
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Re: Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Postby WalkWithWallace » Fri May 06, 2022 8:56 am

I've seen videos of axes being used in the Alps on steep sided grassy ridges so you could you arrest your fall if you fell off the ridge.

For here in Scotland, you'd be better with a pair of trekking poles to be honest and adjust them accordingly; shorter on ascent and longer for the descent.
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Re: Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Postby jmarkb » Fri May 06, 2022 9:37 am

In almost all cases, I would use poles - it's what they are specifically designed for. An ice axe is a multipurpose tool, designed not only to act as a walking stick, but also to provide traction going uphill (either with the shaft in softish snow or the pick in hard snow), perform self-arrest and cut steps.

An axe could conceivably be useful if you set out to climb some very steep grass (like 40 degrees, steeper than Ben More) where you could use the pick. Self-arrest without snow may not work as well as you might hope - the pick can either bounce off rocks or bite so hard it just rips it out of your hands. A fall is likely to be a tumble rather than a slide, in which case being accompanied on the journey by sharp bits of metal may not be good!
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Re: Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Postby AyrshireAlps » Fri May 06, 2022 10:22 am

There's no rules, do what you want. If you feel safer with an axe, go for it.
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Re: Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Postby dav2930 » Fri May 06, 2022 12:10 pm

AyrshireAlps wrote:There's no rules, do what you want. If you feel safer with an axe, go for it.

It goes without saying that you could use an ice axe outwith winter conditions if you wanted to, but I think the issue is whether that would actually be beneficial. On moderately steep slopes like the Ben More route there isn't really a safety concern that an ice axe would address. The relevant consideration is comfort, which poles address better than an ice axe would. So I'm with jmarkb on this, simply in terms of reasoning.
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Re: Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Postby trailhombre » Fri May 06, 2022 12:27 pm

Brilliant. Good advice for and against. Thanks again for taking the time to help a novice!
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Re: Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Postby Phil the Hill » Fri May 06, 2022 1:17 pm

On really steep grassy slopes (e.g. on Soay in St Kilda) microspikes on the feet plus a walking pole (shortened as appropriate) work well.
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Re: Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Postby matt_outandabout » Fri May 06, 2022 2:48 pm

If (in non-winter) conditions it is that steep, I want my hands free to scramble.
I have seen a few folk persevering with poles when hands would have worked better.

As above though, do what you think best on a risk/benefit judgement.
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Re: Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Postby davekeiller » Sat May 07, 2022 5:25 pm

As above, poles will work better as they will aid balance and stop you slipping in the first place.
An axe might help to arrest a fall, but you're probably at least as likely to impale yourself. Very often the soil is pretty shallow so an axe would either catch on a rock and get pulled out of your hand or bounce along the surface.
You're also unlikely to slide that far on grass without being able to stop yourself.
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Re: Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Postby Pointless Parasite » Sat May 07, 2022 8:36 pm

WalkWithWallace wrote:I've seen videos of axes being used in the Alps on steep sided grassy ridges so you could you arrest your fall if you fell off the ridge.


I have used an ice axe like this on a few of the pre-alpine peaks, which are typically very steep but grassy. One of the advantages is that you can stop a slip turning into a slide straight away. This has only happened once, on the Hardergrat, and it all happened so quickly I cannot honestly say if the ice axe actually helped or not. Interesting point by jmarkb about trying to self arrest on grass with an axe. He's probably right, although it would be tempting to at least try to self arrest, rather than just leaving everything to chance.
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Re: Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Postby Caberfeidh » Sun May 08, 2022 1:13 pm

I have an enormous alpenstock which is good for use without snow/ice. Mostly for leaning on while I gasp and pant and feel like I'm having a heart attack, rather than self-arrest, but useful nonetheless. I may just get myself a deerstalker hat and a handlebar moustache to go with it... :D
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Re: Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Postby AyrshireAlps » Mon May 09, 2022 8:33 am

On moderately steep slopes like the Ben More route there isn't really a safety concern that an ice axe would address. The relevant consideration is comfort, which poles address better than an ice axe would


I've been involved in quite a few wee clambers up and down some super steep stuff on training exercises that poles are utterly useless on, in fact are more of a hindrance (for balance, I'm defo a pole user in normal circumstances!)

I'm not for a minute saying I'd take an axe in such circumstances, but I wouldn't say it'd be the wrong thing to do either.
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Re: Using an ice axe when there's no ice

Postby Paul Webster » Mon May 09, 2022 9:30 am

Mick Fowler used ice axes and crampons to climb the chalk of the Dover cliffs*.


* Don't try this at home.
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