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Glen Doll update May 2022

Glen Doll update May 2022


Postby KatTai » Wed May 11, 2022 9:21 pm

Copied from the ANGUSalive Countryside Adventure Facebook page:

***GLEN DOLL UPDATE***
Glen Doll car park is now open. However, all Forestry and Land Scotland waymarked trails remain closed due to storm damage.

Some mountain access routes are also badly affected by storm damage. The ANGUSalive Ranger Service has more information on the status of these.

**UPDATE** On Wednesday 11 May 2022 for approximately 2 months we will be carrying out tree clearance works on the main mountain access routes passing through Glen Doll Forest. The approximate order of works will be Kilbo path and access road, Corrie Fee access road and trail, Dounalt road (south side of upper White Water), Road to Bachnagairn via Moulzie & Capel Mounth trail.

To enable us to carry out these works safely the Kilbo Path, Corrie Fee trail and Dounalt Road will be fully closed when machinery is operating. The road to Bachnagairn via Moulzie and Capel Mounth Trail will be subject to a local diversion. We hope to maintain one route open from Glen Doll car park to access the Munros of Driesh and Mayar at all times.

For more detailed information on closures please phone the Ranger Base at Glen Doll on 01575 550233
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Re: Glen Doll update May 2022

Postby malrc » Thu May 12, 2022 10:01 am

I went up Mayar and Driesh on Sunday and, although all trails are marked as closed, they are passable, with some fallen tree hopping required (especially on the way to Corrie Fee).

Speak to the ranger on duty at the centre and they can advise on routes, etc.
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Re: Glen Doll update May 2022

Postby AHillTooFar » Thu May 12, 2022 2:18 pm

Does anyone who works for these places actually read the rules on access. Unless someone is actively carrying out work they are not closed. Same with every other route route where storm damage has occurred. Not for others to decide on what is dangerous for individuals where the danger is naturally occurring.

The Scottish government really needs to step in and deal with this.
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Re: Glen Doll update May 2022

Postby malrc » Thu May 12, 2022 3:32 pm

Whilst the trails are marked as closed, and it is worth noting that for some they will not be passable due to the fallen trees, no attempt is being made to prevent anyone from accessing the trails. The car park was open (and busy) and the ranger on site we spoke to was offering advice on the potential impediments and was again not dissuading anyone from taking any of the trails.
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Re: Glen Doll update May 2022

Postby Giant Stoneater » Thu May 12, 2022 4:32 pm

AHillTooFar wrote:Does anyone who works for these places actually read the rules on access. Unless someone is actively carrying out work they are not closed. Same with every other route route where storm damage has occurred. Not for others to decide on what is dangerous for individuals where the danger is naturally occurring.

The Scottish government really needs to step in and deal with this.


Does that include all the fallen trees that have blocked roads during the storm, do we just let cars drive into them especially on narrow glen roads in the dark.

Accidents do happen but sometimes precautions to prevent them is a better choice.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/angus-mearns/3049755/glen-clova-man-trapped/
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Re: Glen Doll update May 2022

Postby AHillTooFar » Thu May 12, 2022 4:55 pm

Giant Stoneater wrote:
AHillTooFar wrote:Does anyone who works for these places actually read the rules on access. Unless someone is actively carrying out work they are not closed. Same with every other route route where storm damage has occurred. Not for others to decide on what is dangerous for individuals where the danger is naturally occurring.

The Scottish government really needs to step in and deal with this.


Does that include all the fallen trees that have blocked roads during the storm, do we just let cars drive into them especially on narrow glen roads in the dark.

Accidents do happen but sometimes precautions to prevent them is a better choice.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/angus-mearns/3049755/glen-clova-man-trapped/


Roads are a completely separate issue. I am talking about on foot. Marking a trail as closed or trying to give any indication that you might not be able to exercise access is all the same.
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Re: Glen Doll update May 2022

Postby al78 » Fri May 13, 2022 12:22 pm

Giant Stoneater wrote:
AHillTooFar wrote:Does anyone who works for these places actually read the rules on access. Unless someone is actively carrying out work they are not closed. Same with every other route route where storm damage has occurred. Not for others to decide on what is dangerous for individuals where the danger is naturally occurring.

The Scottish government really needs to step in and deal with this.


Does that include all the fallen trees that have blocked roads during the storm, do we just let cars drive into them especially on narrow glen roads in the dark.

Accidents do happen but sometimes precautions to prevent them is a better choice.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/angus-mearns/3049755/glen-clova-man-trapped/


No, we expect drivers to drive at a speed where they can stop within the distance they can see to be clear. For bonus points, after a severe gale, drivers can work out that trees/debris across roads is a far more likely hazard so slowing down on the country lanes below what they would normally drive at is a very good idea.

People need to be able to conduct risk assessments and make decisions for themselves instead of expecting to be spoon fed everything.
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Re: Glen Doll update May 2022

Postby jupe1407 » Mon May 16, 2022 7:22 am

AHillTooFar wrote:Does anyone who works for these places actually read the rules on access. Unless someone is actively carrying out work they are not closed. Same with every other route route where storm damage has occurred. Not for others to decide on what is dangerous for individuals where the danger is naturally occurring.

The Scottish government really needs to step in and deal with this.


I would think Foresty and Land do know a bit about access. I expect the two trails have been described as "closed" because work will be ongoing to clear them. Even putting that aside, I'm sure we all know full well that were they not advertised as such, the first day day they were advertised as "open", someone trying to walk through the fallen trees and have an accident would be straight onto the Courier's front page with their best compo face and ambulance-chasing lawyers in tow.
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Re: Glen Doll update May 2022

Postby AHillTooFar » Mon May 16, 2022 12:20 pm

Saying they know about access and then describing a situation that goes completely against the access code is a bit contradictory no?

It is not their choice in what they do.
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Re: Glen Doll update May 2022

Postby jupe1407 » Mon May 16, 2022 1:23 pm

AHillTooFar wrote:Saying they know about access and then describing a situation that goes completely against the access code is a bit contradictory no?

It is not their choice in what they do.


I think you misunderstood my point, which was that I am sure they're fully aware of access rights, but will be trying to protect themselves from the repercussions of some dafty having an accident amongst fallen trees, or getting in the way of machinery. There are still thousands of trees down in that relatively small area which will need a lot of ongoing work to deal with. The main routes to the munros were prioritised and are opened up now, I would imagine (quite reasonably) that they don't want folk wandering up remaining trails during work to remove trees (one of which virtually nobody uses anyway)
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Re: Glen Doll update May 2022

Postby AHillTooFar » Mon May 16, 2022 1:45 pm

Again, not their choice. Saying you are aware of rules and then breaking them does not change anything. If land management operations are taking place then they can put up appropriate signage.

Indeed, all they had to do was say, that due to the weather, trees were down and normal routes may be blocked or challenging. It is the individual persons responsibility to take that advice. So they are already protected by law from some "dafty".

This is not an isolated incident. Most of the actions I have witnessed following storm Arwen have been at odds with the access code.

Accurate signage and education is what is required, not making up what suits people.
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Re: Glen Doll update May 2022

Postby jupe1407 » Mon May 16, 2022 1:53 pm

AHillTooFar wrote:Again, not their choice. Saying you are aware of rules and then breaking them does not change anything. If land management operations are taking place then they can put up appropriate signage.

Indeed, all they had to do was say, that due to the weather, trees were down and normal routes may be blocked or challenging. It is the individual persons responsibility to take that advice. So they are already protected by law from some "dafty".

This is not an isolated incident. Most of the actions I have witnessed following storm Arwen have been at odds with the access code.

Accurate signage and education is what is required, not making up what suits people.


For one thing they haven't actually blocked off or physically closed these trails, because folk are using them anyway. I have no doubt that some unscrupulous landowners may well be at it, but in this particular case, I really don't think this is a massive issue. If i wanted to, I could quite easily head up Glen Doll tonight and access these two remaining trails.
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Re: Glen Doll update May 2022

Postby Skyelines » Mon May 16, 2022 2:00 pm

AHillTooFar wrote:Does anyone who works for these places actually read the rules on access. Unless someone is actively carrying out work they are not closed. Same with every other route route where storm damage has occurred. Not for others to decide on what is dangerous for individuals where the danger is naturally occurring.

The Scottish government really needs to step in and deal with this.


Forestry and Land Scotland are no doubt concerned about liability for accidents and injury.
By creating trails they are in doing so inviting people to use them, they therefore have a responsibility to those that use them for their safety which is why they feel the need to protect the public and also themselves from claims against them.
This is not the same situation as normal open access.

The access law places the responsibility on land owners and managers to do what is necessary to protect those taking access on their land. This can involve taking action to deter people from using paths and trails that may be dangerous or in fact preventing acces to some areas.

However there is nothing that can stop someone from using the trails despite the warning inherent in the closure notice, but if they are injured as a result the fault lies clearly with the injured party for ignoring the warning.

Maybe people who think they know the rules should read all of them.
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Re: Glen Doll update May 2022

Postby AHillTooFar » Mon May 16, 2022 4:20 pm

https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/sites/default/files/2018-05/Publication%202005%20-%20Scottish%20Outdoor%20Access%20Code.pdf

Is this not the outdoor access code?

Does section 3 not exist especially section 3.10 and 3.11?

Yes, they have a responsibility to provide access but trees blowing down in a large storm is not their fault. As long as they take appropriate action to clear and restore access in a manageable timeline then that is what they need to do.

Saying something is closed regardless of actual physical barriers is still not OK. Responsibilities goes both ways, but there are also rights to consider, and it is not the right of others to decide for myself or others where I go unless in accordance with the law which tree damage from storms, most certainly is not.
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Re: Glen Doll update May 2022

Postby NickyRannoch » Tue May 17, 2022 6:41 pm

If you want to go and spend a day clambering over fallen trees nobody is going to stop you.

I imagine the vast majority of visitors would prefer prior warning that paths are impassable. Perhaps impassable is the wording they should use.
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