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Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby BigTed » Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:36 pm

MUP has cost Scottish consumers £270M without achieving any of its aims.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20106907.alcohol-pricing-has-cost-scots-drinkers-270-million/

It predicted a saving of 58 lives a year in year 1 with that number rising. It said heavy drinkers would cut down. Neither happened. Looks like an expensive failure to me.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/alcohol/news/scotland-rolls-out-minimum-alcohol-pricing-after-years-of-legal-blocks/
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Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby jupe1407 » Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:25 pm

BigTed wrote:MUP has cost Scottish consumers £270M without achieving any of its aims.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20106907.alcohol-pricing-has-cost-scots-drinkers-270-million/

It predicted a saving of 58 lives a year in year 1 with that number rising. It said heavy drinkers would cut down. Neither happened. Looks like an expensive failure to me.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/alcohol/news/scotland-rolls-out-minimum-alcohol-pricing-after-years-of-legal-blocks/


The research, conducted by the right-of-centre think-tank

Yeah i didn't bother reading the Herald link beyond that :lol:
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Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby Moriarty » Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:38 am

jupe1407 wrote:The research, conducted by the right-of-centre think-tank

Yeah i didn't bother reading the Herald link beyond that :lol:


The Think Tank quoted tends to be coy about its funding, but previous reports mention Oil and Big Tobacco, it would be no stretch of credibility to assume big Alcohol will be in the funding stream.

No surprise then that its output leans towards "Libertarian" Pro big business profit, Anti small person health.


As with Tobacco, if you want to decrease the harm of a legal addictive substance then Public Health interventions will tend to be multi-stranded and aiming primarily to deter new addiction, recognising that established addiction is a much harder problem to solve. So no surprise that established addicts prioritise the drug of addiction in the face of increased pricing unfortunately.
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Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby HalfManHalfTitanium » Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:18 am

Mal Grey wrote:Living in the South East of England fuel prices are indeed becoming a big factor in my more distant "away trips". Before the pandemic, I used to be able to head up and back to the NW Highlands with the car for £150 or so, including some driving around, but mostly just there and back. This last Easter that was more like £260. Unfortunately often having a canoe on the roof somewhat limits my options and also limits car sharing to an extent, but I can't blame anybody else for that but myself. At the moment, I am spending more weekends at home, as I can't justify the price of fuel, and want to be able to afford another holiday this year.

I also drive a lot for work, and have to pay then claim back, which is somewhat battering the credit card. Used to be £50 a week ish, now £80. That's fine as I get it back, but leaves me a bit on edge if there are any expenses delays before the CC bill is due.

I've done 2 Highland trips by train, the latest was on the sleeper a few summers back. It went well and was a great part of the experience, but can't be done at short notice, and stops much of the flexibility of your planning. Price wise its not that dissimilar for a lone traveller to vehicle fuel costs, if you book a long way in advance, but then there are the added costs or difficulties of getting around once you're up there.

I'm not in a difficult financial situation compared to many, earning roughly the median average UK F/T salary, so cannot expect or deserve sympathy, but if the current overall "real" inflation continues I will very soon be spending more than I earn some months, and relying entirely on savings or a modest annual bonus (which is less likely to be paid in a deflated market) to actually be able to enjoy a holiday this year. The biggest single factor in this is the fuel price (home and vehicle). However, some people will be struggling to feed themselves and heat their homes, so it feels churlish to moan. It will, though, affect a lot of people's quality of life, at a time when many folk are still a bit fragile from the last few years' turmoil.


This all rings very true for me, living in the English midlands.

And I agree that, living in comfort, I have no right to moan!

A few random thoughts which might be of slight use anyone who is trying to minimise costs when going on trips to Scotland.

I'm not obsessive about fuel economy, but I find that the vast majority of my petrol costs for a walking trip are on the motorway - the section Birmingham to Stirling. Beyond Stirling, I am more likely to be driving at a more economical 50-60mph average. The lack of other traffic in the Highlands means that, even on single track roads, you can keep moving steadily with very little stop-start. It is much less costly than equivalent driving in England.

I have a small car (honda Jazz) and it has never struggled on any Highland road, e.g. the ones to the Grey Corries and to Plodda Falls. So I don't see the need for a bigger car - they seem to use up huge amounts of fuel. At the moment it is costing me around £50 to fill up, whereas everyone I know seems to be talking about "£100 to fill your car".

Electric cars are of course a whole other debate. I will move to one when I can buy one at an affordable cost!

I've not tried it yet, but some people drive on the motorway at 60mph to save fuel. My main concern about this would be that in a steady flow of busy traffic such as you get on the M1, M6 etc, one vehicle moving more slowly can create risks. However there are normally lorries (frequently 2 lanes of them) who are doing the same thing.

I have used the Glasgow to Skye bus which stops at a number of ideal hill walking locations in the west Highlands. Had a great holiday based at Cluanie a few years ago - train to Glasgow, then the bus.

I doubt if, beyond Glasgow, the train is a realistic alternative for most people, unless you are retired and have much more leisure time. The logistics and advance planning are tricky. A typical example: my son recently travelled Liverpool to Oban - it took him 13 hours due to delayed / cancelled trains and missed connections.

Car share might be a better option. It will rarely apply in my case, but you could put a notice on Walkhighlands eg "I'm going from Glasgow to Glencoe and back on Saturday, looking to share fuel costs."

tim
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Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby AyrshireAlps » Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:51 pm

jupe1407 wrote:
BigTed wrote:MUP has cost Scottish consumers £270M without achieving any of its aims.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20106907.alcohol-pricing-has-cost-scots-drinkers-270-million/

It predicted a saving of 58 lives a year in year 1 with that number rising. It said heavy drinkers would cut down. Neither happened. Looks like an expensive failure to me.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/alcohol/news/scotland-rolls-out-minimum-alcohol-pricing-after-years-of-legal-blocks/


The research, conducted by the right-of-centre think-tank

Yeah i didn't bother reading the Herald link beyond that :lol:


The Herald is quickly becoming Scotland's very own Daily Mail. :lol:

Pretty sure the prediction didn't feature a 2 year pandemic in which time lots of folk sat at home swallying....
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Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby Sunset tripper » Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:08 pm

Hill walking especially bagging is very environmentally unfriendly with people travelling the length of the country for a tick. I'm not a bagger, I don't think :? though I definitely see the attraction of it, and have assisted baggers on several occassions. :D

For me at the moment, I won't be making so many journeys to Glencoe and probably none south of there by car, not for environmental reasons admittedly, but pure and simple economics. I'm fortunate that Ullapool, Torridon and Fort William are only 60 miles away and an hour or so to drive and plenty of new stuff and old for me to visit there, though it does still feel like my addiction is being curtailed. :(


Moriarty wrote: So no surprise that established addicts prioritise the drug of addiction in the face of increased pricing unfortunately.

That's a great point - I wonder if the rising fuel costs will put off young people who have never experienced the hills from taking up "the hobby" in favour of something else like cycling or golf ( :shock: ) perhaps.
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Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby BigTed » Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:49 pm

jupe1407 wrote:
BigTed wrote:MUP has cost Scottish consumers £270M without achieving any of its aims.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20106907.alcohol-pricing-has-cost-scots-drinkers-270-million/

It predicted a saving of 58 lives a year in year 1 with that number rising. It said heavy drinkers would cut down. Neither happened. Looks like an expensive failure to me.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/alcohol/news/scotland-rolls-out-minimum-alcohol-pricing-after-years-of-legal-blocks/


The research, conducted by the right-of-centre think-tank

Yeah i didn't bother reading the Herald link beyond that :lol:


Right of centre can also be right.

Public Health Scotland neutral enough for you?


"Among those drinking at harmful levels or people with alcohol dependence, the study found no clear evidence of a change in consumption or severity of dependence"

https://www.publichealthscotland.scot/news/2022/june/final-report-published-on-the-impact-of-mup-on-people-drinking-at-harmful-levels-including-those-dependent-on-alcohol/
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Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby dronaig » Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:58 am

Park then cycle

Quite often the start of a walk is along a single track road with space for just 2 or 3 cars. However 5 or 6 miles further back, is easier parking so I will finish the journey by bike and cut my fuel bill :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
A good example being Glen Strathfarrar (5 mile cycle and with the benefit of no time restrictions) It makes for a longer day - but on the way back - you will probably have gravity assistance

I guess another good example would be Lochnagar. You could park in Ballater and cycle to the car park (8.5 miles) and maybe a bit further beyond - with the added benefit of avoiding the £5 fee (which is true for quite a few other 'big hills) and of course the stress of finding a parking spot on busy weekends
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Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby Paul Webster » Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:38 am

Just a heads up that we've had complaints about this thread:

Petrol prices as part of how to reach walks is just about on topic. However parts of this thread have gone off into other political issues that don't have any real link - such as alcohol pricing.

If we can keep things on the outdoors / walking topic and away from general politics that would be a better fit for this forum.
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Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby Caberfeidh » Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:22 am

Paul Webster wrote: If we can keep things on the outdoors / walking topic and away from general politics that would be a better fit for this forum.


Indeed. All this talk of fuel costs to get to the hills and glens reminds me of my own low-cost mode of travel; clinging to tidal debris . A much ignored method which has yet to become popular amongst the masses. Though with the surge in popularity of inflatable kayaks and Stand-Up-Paddleboards I believe we will hear more of it. Probably from the RNLI. And if this squally weather keeps up, folk may use the method to get from Braemar to Aberdeen in double-quick time.
The Good Ship Caberfeidh was recently in the Black Sea, where I was afraid I may have had to employ the technique to reach shore after the Russians started sowing mines around the place. Luckily we got minesweepers.

Caberfeidh clinging to tidal debris, off New Foundland.jpg
Clinging to tidal debris. Not the most straightforward mode of transport, but it gets you there nonetheless...


Turkey Mines.jpg
We get welcome news of minesweepers...
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Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby Bastonjock » Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:10 pm

I drive a medium size van as part of my job , I'm a mobile sparkie for the NHS , I'm averaging just short of £130.00 a fill , I generally fill up every three working days ,so I'm probably getting through £210.00 a week , I do try to drive frugally and manage an average 42.5 mpg
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Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby bar72 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:02 pm

I'm currently doing the Corbetts and only change I've made with the fuel prices is that I'll bag 2 or 3 if in close reach or I'll do a 2 or 3 then drive another 20-30 mile, sleep in the car for a night then do another 2 the next day then home.

If you want to save fuel, the best way is slow up a bit, not holding up trucks on the A9 though, drivers have tight schedules and not interested in the scenery! 2,000rpm on a diesel is optimal for economy. Aircon, I don't use it, it's Scotland, not Spain!

Cruise control is fine but it can waste fuel when climbing a hill as it will try and maintain set speed up and over the crest and will only back off when over it (try it). Manual acceleration you can lift the accelerator pedal before you're over the crest, the car will still glide over all the same and you'll save more fuel.
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Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby Booga » Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:01 pm

Mal Grey wrote:Living in the South East of England fuel prices are indeed becoming a big factor in my more distant "away trips". Before the pandemic, I used to be able to head up and back to the NW Highlands with the car for £150 or so, including some driving around, but mostly just there and back. This last Easter that was more like £260. Unfortunately often having a canoe on the roof somewhat limits my options and also limits car sharing to an extent, but I can't blame anybody else for that but myself. At the moment, I am spending more weekends at home, as I can't justify the price of fuel, and want to be able to afford another holiday this year.

I also drive a lot for work, and have to pay then claim back, which is somewhat battering the credit card. Used to be £50 a week ish, now £80. That's fine as I get it back, but leaves me a bit on edge if there are any expenses delays before the CC bill is due.

I've done 2 Highland trips by train, the latest was on the sleeper a few summers back. It went well and was a great part of the experience, but can't be done at short notice, and stops much of the flexibility of your planning. Price wise its not that dissimilar for a lone traveller to vehicle fuel costs, if you book a long way in advance, but then there are the added costs or difficulties of getting around once you're up there.

I'm not in a difficult financial situation compared to many, earning roughly the median average UK F/T salary, so cannot expect or deserve sympathy, but if the current overall "real" inflation continues I will very soon be spending more than I earn some months, and relying entirely on savings or a modest annual bonus (which is less likely to be paid in a deflated market) to actually be able to enjoy a holiday this year. The biggest single factor in this is the fuel price (home and vehicle). However, some people will be struggling to feed themselves and heat their homes, so it feels churlish to moan. It will, though, affect a lot of people's quality of life, at a time when many folk are still a bit fragile from the last few years' turmoil.


This all sounds very familiar, although my salary is well below average. I've looked into coaches rather than driving but they tend to go from city to city, meaning on a journey from rural Oxfordshire to rural Scotland I'd have to take other transport at both ends, adding to the cost and the time spent travelling which is also a concern when I have to use some of my annual leave for other commitments.

Money aside I've also been getting sick of the long motorway drives to Scotland and back, I'd rather take a form of transport where I can read a book, fall asleep etc on the journey.
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Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby Chris Henshall » Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:41 pm

The critical issue with regard to anyone’s decision to drive to a hill (or anywhere else) is that individuals cannot be expected to make (altruistic or otherwise) decisions in order to reduce congestion, to deprive Russia of petro-roubles, to stop children being damaged by the emissions from leaded fuel, to reduce pollution from brake and tyre particulates, to “save the planet” by reducing carbon emissions, etc., etc. Negative impacts such as these are best described as “a tragedy of the commons” and, as such, they have to be resolved by political decision making, not least because, in this case, tax revenue is such a large component of fuel costs.
Unfortunately, at a national level in the UK, we have had a government which hasn’t been keen on intervening in “free” markets for over forty years so problems such as these involving unowned, common resources (like the atmosphere) are often re-drawn as individual responsibilities. They aren’t; whether people drive their cars, take the train or, like Caberfeidh, travel mainly by clinging to debris in tidal currents is really a function of decisions made by politicians as to how they regulate the economies for which they are responsible – in this case, how they regulate the petrochemical companies and our carbon-based economy.
Despite some sensible noises from Holyrood, I see no appetite in Westminster to take the necessary steps (which might, for example, involve smacking petrol up to £5/litre!) so individual people shouldn’t burden themselves with too much guilt if they reach a logical decision to drive £250 miles or more to walk up Ben Klibreak. They (we) aren’t significant players in the game… so roll on 3.5°C of warming (or more) by 2100.
Good luck to all!
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Re: Rocketing Fuel Costs!

Postby Chris Henshall » Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:45 pm

I should have said that I'd be massively in favour of the government subsidising travel by clinging to debris in tidal currents at least as much as I'm in favour of them subsidising the railways. Obvious, really.
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