Cuillin advice?

[joreidy]

Im looking at tackling some of the Cuilin munros over the next while and wondering if anyone has advice for how many of them can be done together in a single outing without the use of ropes? I would be looking at hiring a guide for the Inn Pinn at some stage but apart from that, are the other munros all doable without ropes? I have some scrambling experience completing the Aonach Eagach traverse, the Saddle and Horns of Alligin for some context. Any advice would be much appreciated!

[jmarkb]

All the others are regularly done without ropes (at least by the easiest routes, though these don't always make the most convenient link-ups). In some cases the difficulty, route-finding, exposure and continuity of the scrambling is a step up from the routes you have listed.

Some possible combinations are:
Bruach na Frithe + Am Basteir + Sgurr nan Gillean
Banachdich + Ghreadaidh + Mhadaidh
In Pinn + Sgurr Mhic Choinnich
Eag + Dubh Mor + Alasdair

I would recommend getting hold of this book as a great way to do your research - https://www.cordee.co.uk/The-Cuillin-Andamp%3B-Other-Skye-Mountains-det-15-96-289-16185.html

[prog99]

Good advice from mark and an excellent book recommendation.
I’d add that a lot of the cuillin is about route finding and sound decision making. If it looks or feels wrong it almost certainly will be, it’s useful to stop and think when at key decision points.
With ropes you need to know how to use them and that then leads into needing a lot of kit. For ourselves if scrambling we use the rope/climbing kit in the cuillin for abseils and the 3 main climbing shortcuts on the ridge (td gap, kings chimney and Naismiths route)
One final point, I always wear a helmet. There’s so much loose rock and inexperienced folk kicking it down it just makes sense.

[iain_atkinson_1986]

I'd just bite the bullet and get a guide over four days. You'll experience more of the ridge that way and trying to do them yourself will probably end up in more trips (and expense based on what petrol costs) than just doing the ridge as part of a four-day guided trip.

I didn't find previous experience on Munros to be that beneficial to doing the Cuillin. The route finding was much more difficult and although there were only a few points that being roped up was essential there's no way I'd have been as confident without it.

I used West Coast Mountain Guides who were great. Their prices have gone up a bit since 2018 but I thought they were underpriced for what they offered at that time so I guess that's fair enough. We did 3, 3, 2, 3 working north over four days.

[Dave Hewitt]

For all that I rather admire the various Cuillin guides for spotting and cashing in on a niche market of keen-but-timid Munro baggers, personally I tend to advise people to not hire a guide for anything other than the In Pinn, and even then it's maybe better to do that the old-fashioned way with a competent climbing friend (as I did, for the price of a bottle of malt) or as part of a club where good climbers are around and, often, willing.

It depends on how long you want to take over it, but assuming you're not in a mad rush (and the modern thing of "clearing out Skye" in a week is dispiriting to see), there's no reason why almost all the Cuillin Munros can't be tackled without a rope if one waits for the days when weather and confidence factors are in your favour. I've never been a good scrambler (even less so now with age), but I got round the Cuillin Munros over the course of 19 years and around 15 outings, not all of them successful (but the unsuccessful ones were undoubtedly useful as part of the learning/exploration process). I only twice had a rope on - for the Pinn, and (with the same friend, on a wet day) for part of Sgurr Mhic Choinnich the following year.

In retrospect - and I think my Cuillin days are by and large done - I'm really glad I did it this way, rather than opting into some commercial deal, not that such things really existed when I started in the 1980s. Because I was repeatedly at the limit of what I felt I could do, whether alone or with friends, I found the whole thing very satisfying and it certainly provided an exploratory, adventurous feel. I wouldn't have been left with that feeling had I gone the hired-hand route, even though various of the guides are excellent and I have great respect for them, especially given that it must be quite a stressful job. But the idea of hiring someone to take you up Banachdich or Bruach na Frithe, or even some of the middling-hard ones, has always seemed bizarre given that hardly anyone thinks of hiring a guide for say Slioch or Sgritheall.

[Giant Stoneater]

My wife has done a lot of scrambling in Scotland, Italy and Austria including via ferrata but she has found the Cuillin to be very taxing because of the route finding, weather and extremely wet slippy rock, everyone has a different experience on the Cuillin.
My own view is it takes a couple of visits to really get to know the Cuillin where you can relax and enjoy it.
Best way of summing up the Cuillin is by looking at OS 1;25000 if the weather suddenly changed how well could you navigate off it.
Wearing a helmet is sound advice, a rock just missed my guides head when going across Collies Ledge though i dont think the helmet would have saved him if he went over the edge of Collies.

A excellent book on the Cuillin is Adrian Trendall's Skye Cuillin Ridge Traverse written by someone who stays on Skye and guides on the Cuillin every week of the year.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=adrian+trendall&adgrpid=1172080294395248&hvadid=73255217567937&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=41894&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-73255155771766%3Aloc-188&hydadcr=5496_2032140&tag=mh0a9-21&ref=pd_sl_2fi796sw59_e

[gaffr]

Seems to be all of a rush to get around the Hills nowadays and maybe all part of the ticking off/bagging outlook.
In the sixties all was much slower when reaching the tops of the Munros was for wet days or when a climb was completed.
Days when few had cars to get to the hills. Busses, trains and hitching were the way Northwards to reach the bigger hills.
For Skye on a first visit we entered by the back door and via the Coruisk area, which we used as a base for a week, to get onto the Cuillin. Crossing over the Ridge to get to Glen Brittle for the second week of our annual holiday ration.
Easy climbs to get to the ridge for exploring the southern part of the range and extending our knowledge over the TD Gap to get to Sgurr Alasdair. Up to the Banachdich col. to get to the Pinnacle for a taste of the classic way up. I can recall that a couple of our group of four chose the South Crack a harder route strait up the face.
Anyway our second week was spent at the BMC refuge as a base a good place from which to get onto many easy climbs in the Coires. While others had different objectives I joined up with another guy who was a custodian for the refuge and we traversed all between Ghreadaidh and Gillean.
We returned for a second week a year later when after a stop off for the Pinnacle Ridge the rest of the holiday was spent in the Glen Brittle coires.
A couple of years later we returned for a first traverse of the Ridge and of course, over the years, some further visits to Skye.
Everyone to their own on Skye I don't think that in those days of sixty odd years ago that apart from one man who lived on the island and who offered guiding services there was much other than just having a go to find out how to use ropes for security on the harder bits in the range.

[Andy Milne]

Myself and a couple of friends used Mike Lates’ Skye Guides for the In Pinn (as we didn’t have the kit for climbing / abseiling, nor the knowledge / experience to use it properly). As already stated though, route finding can be tricky, esp if the visibility is low. So depending on your knowledge / experience, a guide for the In Pinn is possibly the most sensible approach.

The other Munros can be done in day trips linking a couple together, but that depends on what you are trying to achieve

[iain_atkinson_1986]

Seems to be all of a rush to get around the Hills nowadays and maybe all part of the ticking off/bagging outlook.
In the sixties all was much slower when reaching the tops of the Munros was for wet days or when a climb was completed.
Days when few had cars to get to the hills. Busses, trains and hitching were the way Northwards to reach the bigger hills.
For Skye on a first visit we entered by the back door and via the Coruisk area, which we used as a base for a week, to get onto the Cuillin. Crossing over the Ridge to get to Glen Brittle for the second week of our annual holiday ration.
Easy climbs to get to the ridge for exploring the southern part of the range and extending our knowledge over the TD Gap to get to Sgurr Alasdair. Up to the Banachdich col. to get to the Pinnacle for a taste of the classic way up. I can recall that a couple of our group of four chose the South Crack a harder route strait up the face.
Anyway our second week was spent at the BMC refuge as a base a good place from which to get onto many easy climbs in the Coires. While others had different objectives I joined up with another guy who was a custodian for the refuge and we traversed all between Ghreadaidh and Gillean.
We returned for a second week a year later when after a stop off for the Pinnacle Ridge the rest of the holiday was spent in the Glen Brittle coires.
A couple of years later we returned for a first traverse of the Ridge and of course, over the years, some further visits to Skye.
Everyone to their own on Skye I don't think that in those days of sixty odd years ago that apart from one man who lived on the island and who offered guiding services there was much other than just having a go to find out how to use ropes for security on the harder bits in the range.

I'd love to have seen Skye in the 60s but I find it an awful place to visit now. It's a rip-off and completely awful in places, e.g. Fairy Pools. I certainly wouldn't want to go for any other reason than do hills so, to me anyway, it makes sense to do one visit and get as many of the hills there done in one fell swoop so you don't have to come back for a while. The only other place I feel the same about is Glen Etive.

[Sgurr]

Husband did them all bar the In Pinn with a competent friend in their thirties at the beginning of the '70s. So didn't go back except for various attempts at the Inn Pin with a guide, written off by bad weather, finally culminating in 2003. Having seen what a relief it was to have another person to help with route finding, and having added McCoinich and Alasdair to the In Pinn for my sake, we booked MIke Lates again for Sgurr nan Gillean and added Bruach na Frithe and Am Basteir. The rest we did with friends or friend. I think he worried about his competence in getting me over the terrain, and it was certainly a help.

[Sunset tripper]

Guides have certainly made "doing the Cuillins" a quick simple process but not for me. I'd rather do them myself. For most of the Cuillin I think it is entirely possible with a bit of research and effort and it must feel far more rewarding. It does take time also which is probably an issue for many.

I'd love to have seen Skye in the 60s but I find it an awful place to visit now. It's a rip-off and completely awful in places, e.g. Fairy Pools. I certainly wouldn't want to go for any other reason than do hills so, to me anyway, it makes sense to do one visit and get as many of the hills there done in one fell swoop so you don't have to come back for a while. The only other place I feel the same about is Glen Etive.

I agree hotel prices are ridiculous in Skye for the quality you receive but best just to avoid them. I stayed in Portree at the campsite for 5 nights the summer before covid for a lot less than a guide would cost for one day. The Co-op is much the same as anywhere else and the bars not much different from others in the highlands. I agree about the Fairy Pools also, totally over hyped but far from typical of the Cuillin. Best left for the bus tours.

I'm planning a visit to Glen Brittle campsite next month for 2 or 3 days and don't expect to be ripped off.
I think with the smash and grab technique at what I guess was considerable expense you missed the best of Skye.
Give it another chance and take your time.

[Sunset tripper]

Husband did them all bar the In Pinn with a competent friend in their thirties at the beginning of the '70s. So didn't go back except for various attempts at the Inn Pin with a guide, written off by bad weather, finally culminating in 2003. Having seen what a relief it was to have another person to help with route finding, and having added McCoinich and Alasdair to the In Pinn for my sake, we booked MIke Lates again for Sgurr nan Gillean and added Bruach na Frithe and Am Basteir. The rest we did with friends or friend. I think he worried about his competence in getting me over the terrain, and it was certainly a help.

I've never heard a bad report about any of the guides to be fair and it's an extremely responsible job. They certainly have their place and understandable that many use them, especially for the in pinn where extra kit is needed.

[weaselmaster]

It’s an exciting time getting to towards the end of your Round. I note you were up doing the Fisherfields this week. Similar to when i did my first lot, I recall Beinn Tarsuinn being my 250th and heading out to Skye not long after that.
I’m no scrambler, and knew i’d need a guide for some of the Cuillin. Eag and Dubh Mor are ok as a pair, and it might be possible to add Alastair onto those. Bruath na Frithe and Banachdich also manageable, separately, without much difficulty if you can see where you are going. Combining Gillean with Am Basteir would, for me, need someone with a rope, as would the Pinn and Mhicoinnich. Mhadaidh and Greadaidh are do-able with minimal difficulty, just the getting up through An Dorus.
Last time i was up, we got a guide to go from Alastair along the ridge to Mhadaidh- that takes in 6 of the Munros plus Tops and is an exciting day out along the Ridge (even though i started to panic near the end🤣)
Whatever you decide to do, enjoy the hills, they are quite different from the rest of the Munros and will reward repeated visits. As others have mentioned, good conditions (especially visibility) are really helpful- navigating is probably the biggest issue and maps - even the large scale Harvey- are of limited use, compass and GPS can be unreliable because of the metallic rocks.

[joreidy]

Thanks everyone, some very useful advice on this thread. I'm going to have a look at the suggested reading materials/maps. Would definitely look at hiring a guide for the Inn Pinn but will probably try some indoor climbing/abseiling over the winter.

[JohnZD]

Second what everyone else is saying.
It’s much better to nibble at the Cuillins so you can figure out what your capabilities are, as despite how the guidebooks rate one summit against another, people are different.
West ridge of Sgurr Nan Gillean, Sgurr MC, and even the back route of Alasdair might be a bit freaky for some.

My first trip involved sitting on Sgurr Dearg watching the climbers on the Inn Pin, before traversing to Sgurr a Mhadaidh in glorious weather.
Likewise, my daughters first trip, with just 20 Munro’s under her belt, We scrambled round Sgurr Sgumain, Alasdair, Bomb Alley, Collies Ledge, and Sgurr MC, cos the weather was gorgeous.
The following year we did Pinnacle Ridge with Mike Lates guides. They were great but there is loads of guide choice

And for Dave H, ahh I miss The Angry Corrie…my two tShirts have long since disintegrated.

John Taylor