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Another windfarm rant

Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby NickyRannoch » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:47 pm

p.s.

the money being thrown at wind farm development by way of subsidy comes from westminster
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Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby malky_c » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:48 pm

NickyRannoch wrote:The scottish tories have the electoral freedom to promise all their voters the moon on a stick.

:lol:

I don't have any time for the SNP but I generally think that wind power is a good idea (along with lots of other forms of generation). I can't say I'm a fan of the way the government incentivise (is that a word?) land owners and power companies, but I think it is better than them sitting on their arses doing nothing (my idea for a more reasonable way to decide what gets built where would probably involve lots of disagreement and nothing getting done).
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Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby MarilynMunro » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:06 pm

Im prepared to be educated, but what does a windfarm do fror climate change when every watt of energy supplied by a windturbine has to be backed by a watt of fossil fuelled or other form of power station, which must be constantly online for dips or surges in demand. My point being you could pepper the country with these turbines but you will always need an alternative source of power turning and burning as back up.
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Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby NickyRannoch » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:08 pm

my understanding of the subsidies for wind power is that those subsidies ezist to enable the funding of initial infrastructure including land purchase, roads and the hardware. wind power will eventually become financially viable. whether it is ever viable as a significant contributor to our energy needs as part of a wide range of energy solutions is another matter.

im open minded on nuclear and dont particularly care about the visual impact/ safety side but the issue of nuclear waste is a worry.

i also have huge concerns about the implications for local democracy where national govts overrule local elected members. having said that i also have concerns about local democracy where local elected members ignore the views of their planning officers because they dont have the political guts to pass applications that there are really no problems with thereby leaving national govt to apply the rules of the planning legislation.
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Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby NickyRannoch » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:12 pm

MarilynMunro wrote:Im prepared to be educated, but what does a windfarm do fror climate change when every watt of energy supplied by a windturbine has to be backed by a watt of fossil fuelled or other form of power station, which must be constantly online for dips or surges in demand. My point being you could pepper the country with these turbines but you will always need an alternative source of power turning and burning as back up.


wind will never be, nor is intended to be, our primary energy source. it is intended to be part of a range of low carbon solutions to reduce carbon emmissions and to produce excess energy for resale. coal burning and nuclear will be on the agenda for a long time to come.
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Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby malky_c » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:27 pm

I don't disagree with subsidies either exactly. The trouble is the government operates in a very 'hands off' manner, which means that the locations of the windfarms are chosen based on which landowners are interested, rather than which sites achieve the best balance of maximum wind available and minimum impact. Ideally, the government would designate areas to be developed based on the above. Trouble is, no-one would ever agree on anything. It would need some kind of benign dictatorship to force it through :lol:
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Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby NickyRannoch » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:30 pm

malky_c wrote:I don't disagree with subsidies either exactly. The trouble is the government operates in a very 'hands off' manner, which means that the locations of the windfarms are chosen based on which landowners are interested, rather than which sites achieve the best balance of maximum wind available and minimum impact. Ideally, the government would designate areas to be developed based on the above. Trouble is, no-one would ever agree on anything. It would need some kind of benign dictatorship to force it through :lol:


simple solution is nationalise the land !! :-) ;-)
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Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby MarilynMunro » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:04 am

NickyRannoch wrote:
MarilynMunro wrote:Im prepared to be educated, but what does a windfarm do fror climate change when every watt of energy supplied by a windturbine has to be backed by a watt of fossil fuelled or other form of power station, which must be constantly online for dips or surges in demand. My point being you could pepper the country with these turbines but you will always need an alternative source of power turning and burning as back up.


wind will never be, nor is intended to be, our primary energy source. it is intended to be part of a range of low carbon solutions to reduce carbon emmissions and to produce excess energy for resale. coal burning and nuclear will be on the agenda for a long time to come.


"it is intended to be part of a range of low carbon solutions to reduce carbon emmissions and to produce excess energy for resale."

Where the impact far outweighs any viable inroads it would make to reduce carbon emissions, and if the other criteria is correct, lets spend millions and devastate the countryside to make a fast buck on energy sales :roll:
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Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby monty » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:21 am

1. Wind farms will never provide base load energy due to the inconsistency of wind and therefore require conventional or nuclear power generation on standby ready to switch in. .
2. Wind farms release billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere in the construction of the turbines (massive energy and natural resources used) and there placing on site (releasing co2 locked up in peat) which will never be recovered. So what are there purpose if its not to combat so called climate change?
3. If the government withdrew the huge subsidies no wind farms would be built. Lets try it and see?
4. The electricity consumer is paying for the subsidies in inflated bills on which the industry will not itemise the payment for windfarms. Why dont they start to itemise windfarm payments on bills?
5. The government and the industry have buried Windfarms in the "Renewables" category to disguise there inefficiency. Why dont they publicise the actual generating details for windfarms?
6. I have passed Whitelea windfarm (215 turbines) on many occassions and seen few turbines rotating in good wind conditions. The windfarm get huge payments when they are told not to produce because the infrastructure cannot take the load on full production and in no wind conditions they obviously produce nothing. The footprint of this windfarm is huge. and only has a rating of 539MW. A small gas power station can be built within 18 months with a rating on 1000MW. What would you rather have?
7. Once the windfarms are defunced, dead, burnt out or worn or the subsidies stop, there is no provision to remove them.
8. There are individuals monitoring social sites and forums ready to attack and denounce anyone that dares to speak out in order to discredit the individual rather than answer any questions posted but they wont admit to this of course.
9. There are huge numbers of wind turbines sprouting up all over the country. The industry has taken a blitzcreig approach to planning applications recently submitting huge numbers of applications for new windfarms overwhelming the application and approval process.

The Scottish governments energy policy is in a mess. The power generating companies and landowners are getting rich quick because of the mad march of the windturines and you and me, the consumer, are paying for it. This is madness.
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Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby whiteburn » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:35 am

monty wrote:1. ...Once the windfarms are defunced, dead, burnt out or worn or the subsidies stop, there is no provision to remove them......


This is something that also concerns me, there's probably an obligation on the Owner to remove the turbines and reinstate the land (although I'm not sure the politicians will have thought that far) I'm sure some clever accountant will see the opportunity to avoid these costs by selling off the 'assets' to "Rogue Renewables PLC" who will then go belly up when the subsidies run out leaving the tax payer to pick up the bill.

Unless someone can educate me to the contrary?
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Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby SusieThePensioner » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:45 am

Does it matter what we think? Who is going to take any notice?
http://yougov.co.uk/news/2012/04/03/wind-farms-and-renewable-energy/
It's not just in Scotland where wind turbines are mushrooming at a rate of knots. In County Durham over the past 5 years many have appeared, wherever you look there are views of turbines. Some of the arguments for and against include, just how much energy do they generate in relation to the costs of installation, why do they stand idle a lot of the time, are they justified and how many of the population do they serve? On the other side of the debate is what to do about the reduction of energy supply with the decomissioning of nuclear power stations and coal fired ones? How many new ones will be built? There is no sensible long term government policy for sustainable energy and, as far as I can see, there won't be one in the near future.

Below is part of the West Durham Wind Farm, adjacent to a SSSI and on the edge of the North Pennines.
Hedley%20Hope.jpg
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Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby welshwalker » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:25 am


This is something that also concerns me, there's probably an obligation on the Owner to remove the turbines and reinstate the land (although I'm not sure the politicians will have thought that far) I'm sure some clever accountant will see the opportunity to avoid these costs by selling off the 'assets' to "Rogue Renewables PLC" who will then go belly up when the subsidies run out leaving the tax payer to pick up the bill.

Unless someone can educate me to the contrary?


It is pretty hard to reinstate the land when you're talking about peat bogs which have taken thousands of years to form. When they are destroyed, there is a huge release of CO2. There is also a huge amount of CO2 in the production of the tens of thousands of tonnes of concrete used for the foundations and the servicing tracks which go to each of the turbines. The industry doesn't mention any of the figures for the CO2 production due to the massive amounts of concrete used. Funny that, as it would make onshore wind power look much less environmentally friendly than it currently does in terms of CO2.
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Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby malky_c » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:24 pm

monty wrote:8. There are individuals monitoring social sites and forums ready to attack and denounce anyone that dares to speak out in order to discredit the individual rather than answer any questions posted but they wont admit to this of course.


Are there? Who? Do you think that they are maybe people who just have a different opinion to you?

I suppose you think I'm one. Bullseye! All those walk reports and meets I've been on are just a cover for it :wink:
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Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby LeithySuburbs » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:53 pm

malky_c wrote:
monty wrote:8. There are individuals monitoring social sites and forums ready to attack and denounce anyone that dares to speak out in order to discredit the individual rather than answer any questions posted but they wont admit to this of course.


Are there? Who? Do you think that they are maybe people who just have a different opinion to you?

I suppose you think I'm one. Bullseye! All those walk reports and meets I've been on are just a cover for it :wink:


Malky - the fact you have only climbed 10 Donalds proves you hate the hills and are simply a windfarm propaganda troll :wink: .
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Re: Another windfarm rant

Postby Paul Webster » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:58 pm

malky_c wrote:It would need some kind of benign dictatorship to force it through


I was wondering when I'd finally get the call :lol:
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