Average speed cameras on the A9

[murphy999]

Lesson 1 in how to make a road more dangerous - Have everyone stare at their speedometer for three hours instead of the road and traffic in front of them.

[ouroboros]

There isn't much detail in the story as to how these will be implemented. If they're placed at the start/finish sections of the dual carriageway sections, it'll be absolute lunacy, because everyone will just try crazy overtakes on the single carriageway sections.

I doubt it - the herd tends to behave much better when there's an impression of being watched.

Added to that - the majority of drivers are actually sensible and responsible, not taking risks with themselves and others.

There will remain the minority of drivers who overestimate their own competence and importance who will doubtless continue to take risks with other road users....no change there.

[Fife Flyer]

I may be being a bit dense here but just how do these cameras work ? Do they do an average at every camera or do they take an average for your whole journey ??

They do what they say on the tin, they take an average of your speed between 2 cameras & as I said previously for the stretch of road they are talking about in the media, they will literally need 100's of cameras Not everyone travels from Perth to Inverness, the majority turn off somewhere along the route & the powers that be would not want anyone to escape

Personally I hate cameras (in case you hadn't guessed), purely cash generating machines
I daresay there will be huge inconvenience installing every camera as well, lane closures etc. Just like there is on the section south of Drumochter, southbound as soon as you hit the dual carriageway, one lane is closed with a speed limit that causes traffic to bunch up & then when the lane re-opens, chaos ensues

[jupe1407]

They do what they say on the tin, they take an average of your speed between 2 cameras & as I said previously for the stretch of road they are talking about in the media, they will literally need 100's of cameras Not everyone travels from Perth to Inverness, the majority turn off somewhere along the route & the powers that be would not want anyone to escape

Personally I hate cameras (in case you hadn't guessed), purely cash generating machines
I daresay there will be huge inconvenience installing every camera as well, lane closures etc. Just like there is on the section south of Drumochter, southbound as soon as you hit the dual carriageway, one lane is closed with a speed limit that causes traffic to bunch up & then when the lane re-opens, chaos ensues

Hopefully this nonsensical idea will be hoofed into the long grass when the full cost of implementing it becomes clear, on top of the apparent £3billion cost of dualling the thing (which will probably be much more than that in reality). Spending £millions making stretches of the road (between the camera sections) like wacky races is absolutely laughable and I doubt will see the light of day.

Someone at government level usually trots out this sort of thing every time there a major fatality on that road.

PS: What have they coned off that massive Drumochter stretch for?

[ouroboros]

Personally I hate cameras (in case you hadn't guessed), purely cash generating machines
I daresay there will be huge inconvenience installing every camera as well, lane closures etc. Just like there is on the section south of Drumochter, southbound as soon as you hit the dual carriageway, one lane is closed with a speed limit that causes traffic to bunch up & then when the lane re-opens, chaos ensues

Given your avatar and listed hobbies - 1 question. What's the fastest speed you've achieved on a public road in Scotland?

In an age of austerity I'm all for a funding stream I don't have to contribute to.

Southbound Drumochter is coned for the first few miles because of Beauly-Denny powerline work. Haven't seen any real issues, after all there's a seamless continuation of single-lane driving from Dalnaspidal to the end of the cones. After that you do tend to see all the frustrated teens flooring the accelerators if possible....although the curse of other drivers on "their" road remains.

[malky_c]

I reckon they will break it up into stretches of 10 or so miles, and measure average over that. I'm not a great fan of speed cameras, but I really can't see the average cameras causing the same amount of speedo watching as the fixed position ones. I won't be watching my speed very closely, as I know it isn't possible to get from Perth to Inverness at an average of more than about 55mph without consistently carrying out crazy overtaking moves the entire way. I'm hoping the cameras stop these manoeuvre as other people realise the same.

I do agree it will be a bit harsh for people who regularly do the journey in the middle of the night though - on the odd occasion I do this, I can probably average 65 -70 mph (which is still much less than it seems when you are doing it)

PS: What have they coned off that massive Drumochter stretch for?

Access to the new Beauly-Denny power cables that are going up, as they run right along the edge of the road here.

[JTweedie]

There was talk of upgrading the railway and moving freight onto that - that could help make a difference if it ever happens.

[clivegrif]

I reckon they will break it up into stretches of 10 or so miles, and measure average over that. I'm not a great fan of speed cameras, but I really can't see the average cameras causing the same amount of speedo watching as the fixed position ones. I won't be watching my speed very closely, as I know it isn't possible to get from Perth to Inverness at an average of more than about 55mph without consistently carrying out crazy overtaking moves the entire way. I'm hoping the cameras stop these manoeuvre as other people realise the same.

I do agree it will be a bit harsh for people who regularly do the journey in the middle of the night though - on the odd occasion I do this, I can probably average 65 -70 mph (which is still much less than it seems when you are doing it.

The A14 in Cambridgeshire is a good example. The cameras are only about a mile apart, but can be in sets of three - so where does one measured section start and the next begin???? It necessitates the use of cruise control so you can just sit there at a speed that won't get you 3 points or more. And they are all plumbed into the same computer, so it doesn't matter what lane you are in....

[ouroboros]

It necessitates the use of cruise control so you can just sit there at a speed that won't get you 3 points or more.

I thank my lucky stars that I can control my car's speed using the pedals.

Must be a real worry for people that can't. Perhaps there's a means to appeal in these circumstances?

[LeithySuburbs]

I can't see this having much impact on me as I'm happy driving at 60mph and often at night when I just switch on cruise control. However, I do think it could make the sections not covered more dangerous as some people will always want to overtake no matter what circumstance .

I have always said no road is ever a bad road or more dangerous than another

Sorry, this is total nonsense in my opinion.

[stevesey]

I have always said no road is ever a bad road or more dangerous than another

Sorry, this is total nonsense in my opinion.

Why? Roads are not inherently dangerous - bad driving is.

[LeithySuburbs]

I have always said no road is ever a bad road or more dangerous than another

Sorry, this is total nonsense in my opinion.

Why? Roads are not inherently dangerous - bad driving is.

I agree in the case of the A9, but are you really suggesting a single track road with few passing places and drops on both sides is no more dangerous than a motorway? Of course roads would be safe without drivers but that seems like a semantic argument to me. We measure danger in terms of risk to life and limb so to talk about roads and drivers like they are mutually exclusive is just pointless. But, as I said, that's just me .

[ouroboros]

Why? Roads are not inherently dangerous - bad driving is.

I agree in the case of the A9, but are you really suggesting a single track road with few passing places and drops on both sides is no more dangerous than a motorway? Of course roads would be safe without drivers but that seems like a semantic argument to me. We measure danger in terms of risk to life and limb so to talk about roads and drivers like they are mutually exclusive is just pointless. But, as I said, that's just me .

Agree with Leithy - a dangerous road is one which is driven dangerously.

Average speed cameras don't change the road - just the driving. The aim is to adjust the herd behaviour to a safer pattern and thus reduce accidents/deaths.

Hopefully will do so too.

[brpro26]

The A9 is fundamentally safe and no more dangerous than any other major road.
The factors that make it dangerous are the long tail backs that come about from the slow lorries(40mph) and vehicles towing. The shape of the road, the long sweeping bends that you can't quite see far enough round to overtake and become frustrated to the point you take a calculated chance(which in some cases doesn't pay off).
There's too many turn off's and entry points that drivers don't judge the speed of the oncoming traffic and pull out causing them to brake, which in a long line of traffic causes a concertina effect resulting in the cars 8 back having the smash.
A lot of the accidents are at junctions, blackspots, then deal with the blackspots and make them safer.
Average speed cameras will not address any of the above as they all happen at about 60mph anyway.

Poor driving and foreign drivers who become easily confused, especialy on the changing single/dual roads.
The poor driving are the ones who sit on your bumper with no time to react and don't anticipate by looking further down the road for any developing situations.
Yes the scenery is nice but keep your eyes on the road or stop in the layby to admire it.
How often do you see someone taking a chance overtaking and you see them 4 cars in front when you come to the roundabout at Perth....what did that achieve babag.

The A9's the only road I drive on with headlight on during the day...it's the law on some roads in Europe....wonder why that is...maybe safer to be seen that split second before anyone else???

Speeds certainly a factor but it's not what's causing the accidents. Poor driving and road design are.

[ouroboros]

A lot of the accidents are at junctions, blackspots, then deal with the blackspots and make them safer.

The British system of keeping all information under wraps until it's argued about in courts makes it hard to learn from these events.

The police investigate and record but the public are not informed. By the time court cases ensue the media isn't really interested in rehashing old news.

Even as someone who drives the road a lot and would be interested to have a better feel how these events occur I never find out.

In the US the local sherriff would just brief the media on the day.