Viewpoint: Alladale Estate - Walking with Wolves

[Paul Webster]

In his latest viewpoint article, Cameron McNeish responds to the latest news stories surrounding Alladale Estate.

WOLVES. The very name stirs the emotions. To some the thought of wolf packs roaming the highlands would be a dream come true, the ultimate in re-wilding. To others the prospect strikes fear, alarm and concern, not only because their childhood bogies are still alive and well and feature a certain Red Riding Hood, but because they have a genuine disquiet about the effect of roaming carnivores on their livelihood...

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[edweirdo]

Yes the wolves and bears re-introduction scenario is long term and will undoubtedly be supervised by SNH (or it's successor Republic of Scotland NH...)

The more pressing short to medium term issue is the maintenance of access rights and standing up strongly and loudly to the likes of the Ledgowan Estate with their confrontational and intimidatory behaviour. I am very surprised there has not been more of an outcry about the bulldozed track scar that is up to 8 m wide in places looking over towards Kinlochewe. How much tax payers money in the form of various grants would they have received to build this? Would a freedom of information request reveal anything?

[RockyRab]

Fully support the reintroduction of wolves and bears to Scotland. We so often hear in topics about wind farms and the like about how a natural environment is important and should be preserved. Large sporting estates are not natural in the slightest, least of all because the natural fauna in the area is no longer there.

[jupe1407]

Why re-introduce an animal that disappeared centuries ago? Multiple choice answers below:

a) Guilt over mankind's part in their extinction
b) Genuine interest in creating a vibrant eco-system
c) Making a ludicrous amount of money by creating a vulgar highland "theme park" for the rich.

It's like a scaled down version of Jurassic Park. Maybe we should ramp up DNA experiments and re-introduce Pterodactyls and such like.

[Cairngormwanderer]

Fully support the reintroduction of wolves and bears to Scotland. We so often hear in topics about wind farms and the like about how a natural environment is important and should be preserved. Large sporting estates are not natural in the slightest, least of all because the natural fauna in the area is no longer there.

This is not a proposal to reintroduce wolves and bears to Scotland. It is a proposal to create a massive zoo/safari park which, by reason of a massive electric fence around it, would not be a natural environment. We already have wolves and bears in Scotland in smaller scale zoos and wildlife parks. This is just an excuse to close off a massive part of the highlands and flies in the face of the hard-fought access legislation.

[RockyRab]

This is not a proposal to reintroduce wolves and bears to Scotland. It is a proposal to create a massive zoo/safari park which, by reason of a massive electric fence around it, would not be a natural environment. We already have wolves and bears in Scotland in smaller scale zoos and wildlife parks. This is just an excuse to close off a massive part of the highlands and flies in the face of the hard-fought access legislation.

I didn't make any reference to this proposal whatsoever, I stated a position on the reintroduction of wolves and bears to Scotland...

[foggieclimber]

I like Jupe1407's analogy to Jurassic Park.
If the fence to be erected is as high quality as Lister's MFI furniture, it surely wouldn't be long before the wolves escaped?

This would appear to be all about satisfying the ego of a very rich landowner and denying the public access to Scottish land rather than the beneficial reintroduction of former species to Scotland. If the people of Scotland want wild wolves reintroduced surely that would be better undertaken by a body such as SNH ensuring animals are put back into their natural habitat, not a fenced enclosure.

[Kevin29035]

I like Jupe1407's analogy to Jurassic Park.
If the fence to be erected is as high quality as Lister's MFI furniture, it surely wouldn't be long before the wolves escaped?

This would appear to be all about satisfying the ego of a very rich landowner and denying the public access to Scottish land rather than the beneficial reintroduction of former species to Scotland. If the people of Scotland want wild wolves reintroduced surely that would be better undertaken by a body such as SNH ensuring animals are put back into their natural habitat, not a fenced enclosure.

Well said.

Too much money not enough sense.

[Essan]

I have no problem with wolves being reintroduced into the Highlands - in fact I'd love it.

However I do have a problem with someone who is so concerned about public safety that he closes down a popular bothy with barely 4 weeks notice, in order to turn it in to a fancy holiday cottage*, expanding his private wildlife park across land which we have a traditional - and legal - right of access to.

* the much lamented Alladale bothy

[RyanfaeScotland]

Has it been stated there won't be access to the land? Surely if he puts in a gate or two he could say there is still access. Don't think I'd be keen on going in but access to bear infested land is still access to the land at the end of the day.

[Cairngormwanderer]

Has it been stated there won't be access to the land? Surely if he puts in a gate or two he could say there is still access. Don't think I'd be keen on going in but access to bear infested land is still access to the land at the end of the day.

Probably legal issues there, Ryan. If it's fenced to keep the animals in then they're kept animals, whether it's classed as a zoo, a wildlife park or a safari park. Any of those classifications carry a whole bookful of regulations and I'm pretty certain one of those will be that you ain't allowed to give public access.
The whole thing is just shot full of so many holes from whatever viewpoint you look at it. The guy is simply not credible.

[SMRussell]

I have expressed my views on this on both FB and Twitter but one more opportunity to comment (on comments) can't go a miss!

When I read about people like Paul Lister it makes me realise why some people are Communists.

Fully support the reintroduction of wolves and bears to Scotland. We so often hear in topics about wind farms and the like about how a natural environment is important and should be preserved. Large sporting estates are not natural in the slightest, least of all because the natural fauna in the area is no longer there.

This is not a proposal to reintroduce wolves and bears to Scotland. It is a proposal to create a massive zoo/safari park which, by reason of a massive electric fence around it, would not be a natural environment. We already have wolves and bears in Scotland in smaller scale zoos and wildlife parks. This is just an excuse to close off a massive part of the highlands and flies in the face of the hard-fought access legislation.

I'm with Cairngormwanderer here

This is not a proposal to reintroduce wolves and bears to Scotland. It is a proposal to create a massive zoo/safari park which, by reason of a massive electric fence around it, would not be a natural environment. We already have wolves and bears in Scotland in smaller scale zoos and wildlife parks. This is just an excuse to close off a massive part of the highlands and flies in the face of the hard-fought access legislation.

I didn't make any reference to this proposal whatsoever, I stated a position on the reintroduction of wolves and bears to Scotland...

RockyRab - but that was the point of the topic that sparked the thread. Anyway, if you are pro re-introducing bears and wolves it would be interesting to hear how you think this should be done.

This is simplistic and the reality is much more complex however it might be interesting for you to know that wolves have been successfully reintroduced to Yellowstone in the US which is a relative wilderness of 2,219,791 acres. That is the kind of area such animals require to roam, kill, eat and bread without causing an issue to human activity and have a quality of life themselves. We do not have wild land in Scotland that comes anywhere near the size of that. Furthermore, yeah okay you weren't talking about the proposal specifically but it is worth mentioning that at 23,000 acres and even with the potential 50, 000 acres the Alladale Estate is falling short - 2,169,791 acres short.

I like Jupe1407's analogy to Jurassic Park.
If the fence to be erected is as high quality as Lister's MFI furniture, it surely wouldn't be long before the wolves escaped?

This would appear to be all about satisfying the ego of a very rich landowner and denying the public access to Scottish land rather than the beneficial reintroduction of former species to Scotland.

Cannot help but agree

Has it been stated there won't be access to the land? Surely if he puts in a gate or two he could say there is still access. Don't think I'd be keen on going in but access to bear infested land is still access to the land at the end of the day.

Probably legal issues there, Ryan. If it's fenced to keep the animals in then they're kept animals, whether it's classed as a zoo, a wildlife park or a safari park. Any of those classifications carry a whole bookful of regulations and I'm pretty certain one of those will be that you ain't allowed to give public access.
The whole thing is just shot full of so many holes from whatever viewpoint you look at it. The guy is simply not credible.

Exactly. Makes you think - if Lister is allowed to do this how many other landowners might do similar?

[RockyRab]

RockyRab - but that was the point of the topic that sparked the thread. Anyway, if you are pro re-introducing bears and wolves it would be interesting to hear how you think this should be done.

The point of the topic doesn't just seem to be about the estate, the article does discuss the wider aspects of species reintroduction albeit fleetingly.

The finer details of it are something that somebody far more important than me can iron out, I don't have the knowledge required to come up with a plan that could be implemented. I don't think a single land owner acting unilaterally is the way to go though, organisations like SNH have to be involved as do other stakeholders.

This is simplistic and the reality is much more complex however it might be interesting for you to know that wolves have been successfully reintroduced to Yellowstone in the US which is a relative wilderness of 2,219,791 acres. That is the kind of area such animals require to roam, kill, eat and bread without causing an issue to human activity and have a quality of life themselves. We do not have wild land in Scotland that comes anywhere near the size of that. Furthermore, yeah okay you weren't talking about the proposal specifically but it is worth mentioning that at 23,000 acres and even with the potential 50, 000 acres the Alladale Estate is falling short - 2,169,791 acres short.

I think it is disingenuous to say they require that much space. There are important differences between American and Eurasian grey wolves.

American wolves generally have much larger ranges (almost five times as large), form larger packs and are less well adapted to human activity within their range compared with the Eurasian wolf. At the very top end of their range, Eurasian wolves require about 125 000 acres which is still a considerable but far more realistic amount of space. At the lower end of the scale, they require less than a fifth of that.

The issue of space is why I think the issue needs to be addressed by more than a single landowner and involve groups such a SNH.

[SMRussell]

RockyRab - but that was the point of the topic that sparked the thread. Anyway, if you are pro re-introducing bears and wolves it would be interesting to hear how you think this should be done.

The point of the topic doesn't just seem to be about the estate, the article does discuss the wider aspects of species reintroduction albeit fleetingly.

The finer details of it are something that somebody far more important than me can iron out, I don't have the knowledge required to come up with a plan that could be implemented. I don't think a single land owner acting unilaterally is the way to go though, organisations like SNH have to be involved as do other stakeholders.

okay fair enough.

This is simplistic and the reality is much more complex however it might be interesting for you to know that wolves have been successfully reintroduced to Yellowstone in the US which is a relative wilderness of 2,219,791 acres. That is the kind of area such animals require to roam, kill, eat and bread without causing an issue to human activity and have a quality of life themselves. We do not have wild land in Scotland that comes anywhere near the size of that. Furthermore, yeah okay you weren't talking about the proposal specifically but it is worth mentioning that at 23,000 acres and even with the potential 50, 000 acres the Alladale Estate is falling short - 2,169,791 acres short.

I think it is disingenuous to say they require that much space. There are important differences between American and Eurasian grey wolves.

American wolves generally have much larger ranges (almost five times as large), form larger packs and are less well adapted to human activity within their range compared with the Eurasian wolf. At the very top end of their range, Eurasian wolves require about 125 000 acres which is still a considerable but far more realistic amount of space. At the lower end of the scale, they require less than a fifth of that.

The issue of space is why I think the issue needs to be addressed by more than a single landowner and involve groups such a SNH.

Oh I'll happily hold my hands up to being disingenuous here. I was taking an extreme example to highlight a point. I simply do not think we have the space within Scotland to reintroduce species such as wolves and bears in a manner which would give them a good quality of life whilst not being problematic for the population. I think the quality of life of the animals themselves has been lost in this debate (not just here).

The thing is wolves, bears and humans once shared the land together but we humans have caused them to die out within Scotland which is obviously awful. In the years since wolves and bears have died out, humans and other species have become accustomed to occupying the land without wolves and bears. Reintroducing potentially dangerous animals onto a small island like ours is highly problematic.

If it were to occur they would need a sizeable amount of land to roam in as we have both pointed out. However, as they represent a danger to livestock and potentially to people they would need to be fenced in - both farmers and the general public would undoubtedly demand it. If a huge junk of land, which would need to be far larger than Lister's proposed 50, 000 acres, is cut off that could impact greatly on the right to roam depending on the access to the land. Although personally as folks in Canada manage to hike in 'bear country' and in regions where there are wolves without encountering many problems I think walkers should be allowed to roam in this hypothetical fenced-in area. But of course this would mean a large chunk of land which would be used for other purposes will have been cut off. In order to maintain the land money would need to come from somewhere and the folks who own the land would undoubtedly aim to make money from it to sustain it, as Lister does, and we end up being charged potentially very high fees to access land which we once roamed freely in ourselves. It would possibility / probably end-up being a safari park. Personally I think this is a lose-lose situation because ultimately the bears, wolves and other creatures would be in a completely artificial space and human population may be cut off from that space freely.

Anyway. I personally think it is a nice, romantic idea but I don't think should happen.

[RyanfaeScotland]

The problem with comparing us to the likes of Yellow Stone is that the States have a right to bear arms. Personal I don't see the point in introducing a heap of bears if they can't have arms, they would be too easy prey for the other animals, even if it would mean we don't really need the fences.