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Walker Rescued from Cairngorm Car Park

Re: Walker Rescued from Cairngorm Car Park

Postby Lightfoot2017 » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:52 am

madprof wrote:
OK so they're humans and fallible, and might be arseholes, but incompetent? I don't normally associate MRT with incompetence - they'd get unstuck pretty quickly if they were.


what he said.... :clap: :lol: :clap: :lol:
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Re: Walker Rescued from Cairngorm Car Park

Postby mrssanta » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:03 pm

mgmt! wrote:, the mcofs do some very good lectures for people new to winter walking and i would recommend them to anyone who plans to start some winter mountaineering..


sounds like a good plan but the mcofs don't do any lectures in Brighton, and given that the climate on the south coast is quite benign it might not be obvious that it is anything but benign in the cairngorms. Not trying to make excuses but if you didnt know the extent of your ignorance, how do you find out?
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Re: Walker Rescued from Cairngorm Car Park

Postby Stuart Angus » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:42 pm

Caberfeidh wrote:
Lightfoot2017 wrote: bottom line, if the Head of the Cairngorm MTR has a go at the guy, then that’s good enough for me.


And thus the witch~hunt perpetuates.... MRT members are self-appointed. I've never met any from Cairngorm MRT so cannot comment , but I have met those in another team, who left a lot to be desired regarding beating them about the head and neck with a heavy blunt instrument until the pompous condescending egocentric self-aggrandising incompetent gits begged for mercy. Of which there would be none.



Agree with Caberfeidh.............humiliating people on the news, facebook, Twitter etc is not on. They volunteer, take the rough with the smooth and if they don't like it.........don't do it.
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Re: Walker Rescued from Cairngorm Car Park

Postby rambler » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:49 am

Giant Stoneater wrote:In Glen Doll at the visitor centre this is in operation during the winter.

The Route Card System operates from 9am - 4.30pm during the winter months (October - March) and 9am - 6pm during the summer (April - September). Lone walkers venturing out on to the hills are strongly recommended to use the system for their own safety. The cards are checked daily by the rangers and if necessary the emergency services are contacted should a walker fail to return to the car park two hours after the stated time of return.


That's a good system to cover those who leave from and return to that car park but not a catchall even for Glen Doll I should imagine.

I don't think it was ever established that this walker actually had a car in that car park.
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Re: Walker Rescued from Cairngorm Car Park

Postby Caberfeidh » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:55 am

Lightfoot2017 wrote:
Caberfeidh wrote:beating them about the head and neck with a heavy blunt instrument until the pompous condescending egocentric self-aggrandising incompetent gits begged for mercy. Of which there would be none.


:lol: Caberfeidh...forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm picking up distinctly negative vibes here, re your experience of MR people. Am I wrong? :shock:

And if not...details please! :wink:


bydand_loon wrote:Furry boots did you bump into Aberdeen MRT then



Indeed ~ the only MRT I ever heard of who needed rescued - by another MRT ! Some years ago at Bob Scott's bothy, a couple of guys were waiting for a group coming over the hilltops from Rothiemurchus. The weather had turned bad quickly, from frosty blue skies to wind-driven snow, the wind being from the East and thus into the faces of any coming over the hills from Rothiemurchus. The travellers were known to be carrying flares in case of emergency. As we sat around the fire and tried to cheer up the obviously anxious waiting blokes, I looked out of the window up towards the track (there's an Inuit word "Iktsuarpok" which means "to keep going outside to see if someone is coming" - we were doing this frequently) when I saw a red flare rise up above the Derry woods, lighting up the falling snow in a maroon glare. I pointed this out to the waiting denizens of the bothy, and we all got our coats on and hurried out to guide in the obviously lost crew. A search of the woods and track revealed nothing; we called and ploughed through the knee-deep snow, worried that they might take a wrong turning and head either towards Corrour or Loch A'an. Seeing a Landrover at the Aberdeen MRT hut, we went to the door and knocked. Someone opened the door, revealing a crowded interior. All eyes looked down their noses at me as I explained the situation, whereupon I was told curtly: "Oh that was us, we are practising it's alright, we told the police ", and with that the door was shut on my face. They didn't think what trouble they might cause with practising with red flares, and assumed they would be the only ones with red flares. Were the police going to ignore any red flares on the orders of Aberdeen MRT ? Another time a bloke at Bob Scott's was injured (broken leg and concussion) ; when the inhabitants of Aberdeen MRT's hut were asked for help, they replied that Braemar MRT would have to do it, as Aberdeen MRT were all drunk and couldn't drive the Landrovers. Other times members of Aberdeen MRT have stopped and demanded to know details of people out in the hills, or entered Bob Scott's and arrogantly questioned the inhabitants, shining torches in our faces and generally behaving in an overbearing manner.
This was all a long time ago, maybe more enlightened times prevail now, but I suspect not...
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Re: Walker Rescued from Cairngorm Car Park

Postby Gareth Harper » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:39 pm

Agree with Caberfeidh.............humiliating people on the news, facebook, Twitter etc is not on. They volunteer, take the rough with the smooth and if they don't like it.........don't do it.


As far as I am aware the fella in question has not been named.
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Re: Walker Rescued from Cairngorm Car Park

Postby electricfly » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:18 pm

Gareth Harper wrote:As far as I am aware the fella in question has not been named.


However, if you have a male friend aged 38, from Brighton, who has recently returned (a bit pale round the gills) from an exciting, fun-packed holiday in Aviemore, and who has asked you to get him a fancy Petzl NAO headtorch for Christmas...







...it might be him. :lol:
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Re: Walker Rescued from Cairngorm Car Park

Postby spiderwebb » Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:50 pm

Comments wide and varied on this one.

I did much of my early walking in Scotland whilst living down South and can agree that when you have made a trip to Scotland there is a desire to get it done no matter what (probably still carry that with me now, that’s part of the challenge I guess :D ). In my early trips we didn’t come in winter for starters, recognising from reading up, that it is a different game, but none the less ventured up whenever we could and at least one long weekend each year.
Prior to Scotland though, we had walked in the Lakes, Wales, England, covering all the ranges, done many of the long distance routes too, but Scotland was far away. It didn’t stop us, some trips were made with less than ideal vacation time. One such, leaving Friday night direct from work in London, to reach Glencoe by morning to do the AE. Day 1 was blowing a hoolie and was abandoned, Day 2 was meant to be journey home but dawned sunny and blue so off we went, finishing up eating at Bridge of Orchy at 2030 hrs at night due in London for 0800hrs work.

But back to topic. I don’t know if this guys experience was varied and to what level. For those of us that know the area and car park it seems ludicrous taken as it is.

But as ever hindsight from an armchair is easy. The skills and tools needed to safely navigate our wild lands are not expensive or hard to come by. I still find it incredible that anyone can get lost, and I’m not criticising here, its just that it really isn’t rocket science but how many practice it, on good days ? Same with winter skills, axe arrest etc. But I’ve been there myself.

But these factors don’t account for the state of mind. We have all been there, myself included and that includes being lost, had the skills to navigate but no amount of navigation will help you (I’m referring to pre GPS days) if you don’t know where you are in the first place.

Whilst not necessarily immediate panic, it doesn’t take long for anxiety to set in, with a rapid drop in moral, exhaustion both physical and mental. These are the enemies of rational thinking and very quickly a minor error can turn into an all out panic with the ensuing further bad decisions to make the news.

As with any sport or pastime involving an element of risk, the training, practice and experience are mostly not needed, but when something goes wrong, that is when it tells…not just the skills themselves but back to that state of mind again, being confident to ward off anxiety and/or panic because you know what to do, and can still do it when events are against you.

I have witnessed first hand on several occasions the onset of hypothermia, whilst it may not have been a factor in this incident, it could have been and quickly and it doesn’t need winter. From the first signs to death can be inside an hour ! The first signs we have possibly all experienced, no doubt without realising it, but the early signs can quickly develop to the stage where rational thinking goes out the window to a point where it is easier to just sit down and not go on. Once that kicks in, if on your own then it only needs the right combination of weather and it would be recovery not rescue.

Fortunately I have only encountered one such life/death situation myself, not hypothermia related but more a case of quickly going from the norm to giving up and letting myself go, all within the space of 3 minutes, simply because something inside triggers that it’s the only way to stop the panic and it’s the easier option. All down to a lack of confidence/experience in a given situation, and it was nearly my downfall.

I have had the police question me over being on the hills asking how could I navigate in such conditions,
my reply...I have GPS
Police: What if that fails ?
Me: I have compass and map
Police: What if you lose them ?
Me: I'm familiar with the terrain and the general directions for escape routes ?
etc etc. Failing all else I'll use the Force !

I felt like saying what if all four wheels on your police car fall off at the same time !!!!!

So, we can only conclude given the reported MRT comments this incident warranted criticism, my only thoughts from all I have said above and someone pointed out in relation to the car park when all is closed, and the fact that news reporting ….well enough said :D

But had we been reading about a body found at the Cairngorm car park that morning, views may be different.
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Re: Walker Rescued from Cairngorm Car Park

Postby Stuart Angus » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:37 pm

Gareth Harper wrote:
Agree with Caberfeidh.............humiliating people on the news, facebook, Twitter etc is not on. They volunteer, take the rough with the smooth and if they don't like it.........don't do it.


As far as I am aware the fella in question has not been named.


Point missed.................yet again, naming would be defamatory!
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Re: Walker Rescued from Cairngorm Car Park

Postby Walkinmyfootsteps » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:25 pm

I wouldn't be ringing that lot for help no matter what. Imagine getting rescued by these 'heroes' who then see fit to berate him.
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Re: Walker Rescued from Cairngorm Car Park

Postby Caberfeidh » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:17 am

Back in my young days when I was doing my hill apprenticeship , it was considered very low indeed to rely on a mountain rescue team; they were only to be called on if you were on the brink of death, your leg was hanging off by a string or your guts were wrapped around an irate stag's antlers. Even then it was the done thing to at least crawl a couple of miles, leaving a good trail of blood in the snow, in order to show that you had at least tried. This was not necessarily out of respect for the MRT, but because they were often seen as rank amateurs and a chap was considered a complete pansy if he ever needed them, even if his leg was hanging off by a string, etc.
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Re: Walker Rescued from Cairngorm Car Park

Postby CharlesT » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:52 pm

Stuart Angus wrote:Point missed.................yet again, naming would be defamatory!


To be defamatory the statement would have to be false. Naming correctly the individual concerned woud not in itself be defamatory. To go on and make representations as to his abilities, character or judgement could be if such assertions could not be shown to have a basis in fact. That would be for a court to determine.
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Re: Walker Rescued from Cairngorm Car Park

Postby bio-man » Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:40 pm

brpro26 wrote:It's been a hard slog reading to the end of this thread. The guy's obviously been caught out in severe conditions which arguably he shouldn't have gone out in but I'm glad to be reading this "wind and pish" rather than reading about a tragic fatality so early in the year.


Hi all....I've been a 'lucky one' and experienced being packaged by Oban MRT and chucked into Gannet rescue heli. Two weeks later I was still in the Spinal Unit and read about the 2 ice climbers who sucummbed close to safety in the Cairngorms. We all now how desolate and dangerous the Gorms are, and everywhere else, but that's our choice. Naming and shaming....the guy must have been terrified...I was and I could see the A82.
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