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Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban


Postby Backpacker » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:20 pm

Just had a read of this http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/news/scottish-government-approves-lomond-camping-ban/0014345/

Must admit, I'm not really surprised this has gone through, seems to be the British way nowadays just to ban things rather than tackle the problem.
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Re: Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Postby gman » Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:31 pm

From 2017, between 1st March and 30th September each year, wild camping will be banned from near roadsides and lochsides in 3 areas of the park in addition to the existing ban on East Loch Lomond; the new areas covered are West Loch Lomond, Trossachs West and Trossachs North. The plans also ban use of public laybys by caravans and campervans in these areas.


I think that's a misleading article: camping hasn't been completely banned in these areas, there will be permits issued to keep numbers under control. UKC covers it better:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=70227
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Re: Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Postby LeithySuburbs » Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:04 pm

If this is a taste of "land reform", I dread to think what the Scottish Government has lined up next. A sad day.
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Re: Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Postby BobMcBob » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:15 pm

Surely this is just going to move the problem elsewhere? I don't know who is responsible for causing all the problems (I can guess) but my bet is that the next-nearest lake is going to find itself full of litter this summer.
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Re: Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Postby Backpacker » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:05 pm

BobMcBob wrote:Surely this is just going to move the problem elsewhere? I don't know who is responsible for causing all the problems (I can guess) but my bet is that the next-nearest lake is going to find itself full of litter this summer.


Already has, take a wander up Glen Etive/Loch Earn/Glen Orchy after a weekend this summer.

It isn't more banning that's needed, it's proper application of the rules & regs that are currently in place, however, which option is cheapest?
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Re: Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Postby matt_outandabout » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:40 pm

It isn't more banning that's needed, it's proper application of the rules & regs that are currently in place, however, which option is cheapest?

^this.
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Re: Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Postby Senja » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:00 pm

The KrapKampers are breaking laws all over Scotland, but go unchallenged. Easier to boil a frog by just banning everyone from an area at a time.

This is a big threat, as the problem is still with us, and of course the incentive to expand the zones. As a walker, I feel little threat from their roadside exclusion zones - but for how long are they going to be just roadside? As a cycle tourist, I feel threatened. I am used to hiding away at night in England and Ireland, but there there is no fear of criminal law enforcement or punishment.

A sad day to the shame of the Government and the eyesore erecting National Park.
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Re: Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Postby NickyRannoch » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:49 pm

How do they plan to police this if they can't police the actual crimes being committed there currently?
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Re: Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Postby thomsok » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:55 pm

I agree with many of the sentiments, if they have been unable to use existing laws to enforce littering, criminal damage caused by pick-nickers or campers how will they enforce a new law banning camping!
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Re: Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Postby IanEzzi » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:38 pm

How do they plan to police this if they can't police the actual crimes being committed there currently?


Ha, good point!

So, tinfoil hat on, what's actually different? Is it somehow easier to police the camping ban?

or worse yet, they actually DO have the resources to police the lochside but just wanted to get this law in first?
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Re: Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Postby NickyRannoch » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:28 pm

When you actually look at the areas covered I doubt it is anywhere any sane person would want to camp on a bank holiday weekend anyway.

My worry is

1. spreading anti social behaviour elsewhere
2. thin end of wedge - where else could this be enacted and for which spurious reasons?
3. erosion of hard won access rights
3. the principle of creating bigger hammers to hit everyone when laws to deal with the problem already exist.
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Re: Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Postby jupe1407 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:19 am

I literally can't wait to drive by Loch Earn this summer. It's been a sh*t-tip for years, but will undoubtedly be worse now.

Short of genetically engineering some sort of super-midge which is only attracted to Buckfast and Tennent's Super Lager, I can't see a solution.
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Re: Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Postby Csm8 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:08 am

BobMcBob wrote:but my bet is that the next-nearest lake is going to find itself full of litter this summer.


Lake?
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Re: Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Postby Sunset tripper » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:08 am

NickyRannoch wrote:How do they plan to police this if they can't police the actual crimes being committed there currently?


It will be far easier to police as a blanket camping ban means an offence is being commited if your camping. Where as antisocial behavior is harder to prove or pinpoint. And leaving trash etc. is not obvious until the camp has been vacated.

Unfortunately the people who live in these areas support the ban and see the existing ban as being successful.
Not enough people oppose it or care for it to become a big issue
The people of Glen Etive are also praying for this sort of legislation for their area too. It will only be a matter of time.

NickyRannoch wrote:When you actually look at the areas covered I doubt it is anywhere any sane person would want to camp on a bank holiday weekend anyway.

My worry is

1. spreading anti social behaviour elsewhere
2. thin end of wedge - where else could this be enacted and for which spurious reasons?
3. erosion of hard won access rights
3. the principle of creating bigger hammers to hit everyone when laws to deal with the problem already exist.

I pretty much agree with all of the above.
On your last point regarding laws existing already, the problem is the police are not willing and dont want to or dont have the resources required to enforce the existing laws. :(
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Re: Scottish Government approves Lomond camping ban

Postby gman » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:25 am

The restrictions apply to 4 areas: Loch Earn will also be covered so it shouldn't get worse as a result of the ban. I use the cycle path on west Loch Lomond and see caravans left in laybys from spring - autumn, by August it gets pretty aromatic as you can imagine. But, from the photos I've seen, the main problem seems to be party campers who chop down trees, have a bonfire/bbq then abandon the litter/tents/crap in the morning. I guess it would take the park decades to recover from that kind of sustained damage.

There's no way the police/courts have the resources to monitor an area this size, and they would need evidence of a crime to take action. It's much easier to send a ranger round to check permits and move folk on if they don't have them. There isn't a solution that would keep everyone happy, rewilding with wolves maybe?

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