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pmr446 radio emergency channel

Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby Scraggygoat » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:16 pm

There are no terrestrial radio channels that I am aware are monitored. If you happen to need emergency assistance and are without mobile phone coverage, but have your two way mini-radios with you there would be no harm in issuing a MAYDAY (following protocols) in the hope that a radio-ham (or somebody else) picks it up and is in a position to relay it. However in reality you would be have to be very lucky for the message to be received by anybody, and should assume unless you get a reply that it hasn't been heard and act accordingly.

When you say that you brought them for Kayaking, if you mean Sea Kayaking you would be well advised to buy a quality handheld Marine band VHF set(s). Channel 16 is the default calling and emergency channel and is monitored by the coastguard. The requirement for all craft to carry out a listen watch on Channel 16 has now been dropped, however many vessel still routinely do keep one. Also should a lifeboat (depending on the class) or a Helicopter be tasked to you they have the ability to DF (direction find) for your transmission (once within a certain range) and will expect you to be on Channel 16.

It is illegal to use a marine VHF from land (unless you have a 'shore station' licence). However if I have sea kayaked and then gone walking / climbing I take the VHF with me, and in an emergency would use it if no phone coverage was available in the hope of raising the alarm, or if successful by mobile phone when providing details to the emergency control room would also inform them that I had it and my call sign, in case of a helicopter being tasked . Then face the legal repercussions (if any) later. If I have just gone walking / climbing normally I wouldn't take it with me.

For a marine VHF you are legally meant to gain an operators licence and register your VHF with the Coastguard.
I suspect that the equipment you have brought would also require you to have an equivalent terrestrial radio licence, and your question illustrates why such training is good practice.
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Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby Marty_JG » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:11 pm

basscadet wrote:
Jaxter wrote:Worth doing this as often a text can get through when a phone call won't
http://www.emergencysms.org.uk/


So I have heard many times, and yet when I broke my ankle, my 999 call got through no problem, but I couldn't send or receive a text.. :crazy:


That can a happen, sure, any amount of condition/transmitter/phone stuff... but it's worth telling people about the 999 txt service (as that needs to be set-up/aware beforehand) as it gives a person more options.

PS, sorry to hear about the ankle.
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Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby Big Wull » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:54 pm

hey there scraggygoat you've picked me up right but no not for the sea buddy the lochs up here in Scotland are pretty big and we do tend to split up sometimes as we all have our fav fishing spots.
Here is a link to the original post that I saw http://www.transmission1.net/viewtopic. ... =7&t=19065 as I think a couple of people were missing the point is was trying to make.
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Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby Scraggygoat » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:17 pm

I've paddled some of the bigger inland lochs, and in terms of emergency communication they are generally a poor place, often remote from habitation so rarely have mobile coverage, generally in big trenches so radio's and particularly handheld radios (irrespective of type) have very limited broadcast range being blocked by the hills and there is often no body else is around, and even less (to more likely none) listening anyway. Coastguard Ariel's obviously out of range, and no passing marine traffic to 'relay' or help. A para-rocket flare only has a height of 300m so generally wouldn't get above the skyline, and lets face it the chances of someone seeing it and reporting are beyond slim.

A PLB is probably your only realistic option of raising the alarm in a timely manner somewhere like Loch Monar, Loch Trieg ect, but even then it would be very useful if you had a marine VHF. If a registered PLB is activated by a kayaker (probably following a shore contact check from your PLB registration details), the coastguard (whom is responsible for rescue in larger inland bodies of water) is going to most likely task a helicopter as there are really no other options (except Loch Ness & Loch Lomond with the RNLI), and will have briefed them that you have a VHF and your VHF call-sign.

Being able to talk to that helicopter whether to guide them on to you, or tell them the situation is immensely valuable. Imagine being able to tell that helicopter Mayday, - Kayak party XXX, -position XXX, - 8 party members - now party split, three capsized down wind of my position, paddling red boats, wearing yellow jackets. five accounted for now ashore at my position.

From the PLB activation that helicopter will have been tasked, possibly not knowing how many people are involved and what the situation is, with one 60 second broadcast they have gone to knowing how many people to recover i.e. they are not done when they spot the first caz, a decreased the search area and an upward point not to waste time going beyond, & to ignore (at least initially) that obvious bright mass of colour that is you and your four mates and their boats onshore. Plus you have speeded a focused search up.

Without the VHF, the choppers going to look for people in the water even if they see you, if after a few sweeps they see nothing, they'll most likely do a couple of circuits to gauge scale & discuss options, then probably come into land / winch the crew man down at a safe location with a fly-away or emergency put-down option, probably away from you so as to avoid blowing you and your boats into a tangled mess potentially resulting in flying debris risks to their air intakes (very bad day) and injuries to you (not so bad day), The winchie then has got to walk over to you hoping to be told that you had a bit of bother and that you are all together and ashore getting your **** together and you really apologise for causing all the fuss but at the time it was going from bad to worse, thank you very much for responding & no ones injured, no ones hypothermic, no ones at risk of secondary drowning etc. I.e. the best sort of 'wet job' situation the crew could hope for.

Only to be told all of the missing three, run back and brief the rest of the crew while they take off.....and that it is a bad day after all.

..................it might 'just' if the dice land in your favour, have a happy ending,

So having Marine VHF(s) rather than something else is still very worthwhile.
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Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby bob e skunky » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:41 am

Just read the post.
I'm a radio ham and have carried UHF and VHF handhelds when out on the hills and to be honest, I was only wasting battery power. I occasionally take part in SOTA and although it's been a while, I've operated from places like the Buachaille, the Lomond area, the Lawers area and I'd only be confident in getting heard on the lower slopes if it was somewhere near the Central Belt.
PMR is much lower power but not entirely useless as there is activity in rural areas, I hear quite a bit of traffic in the Arrochar, Loch Lomond location. Business stuff.
The emergency text option as suggested is the best option
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Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby RichardMartin » Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:32 pm

ch8, 8pm, Sunday nights. People use pmr446 for recreation. Trying to see how far they can get. It's not very popular, but I have myself sat upon hills trying. This usage means it's programmed into a few peoples scanners. I'm not sure how useful this would be, but with a calculated 80 miles 'line of sight' you might get lucky. Or if you are just interested on a Sunday night, you could join in and let us know how viable it seemed. No privacy codes though. Just ch8

Not all radios are created equally. The cheapest that works looks like the Baofeng 88e which is a legal pmr446 modeled on the 888s model. The 888s is a highly reviewed £10 radio. Giving an idea what you might get. It's actually the same radio, but on 446 you can't swap aerials to get type approval. Both can actually take a programing lead and do the same tricks, as it's the same radio. So the reviews of the 888s are very useful. To save you looking, some 446 radio might fail at a couple of hundred meters in dense housing. At that time, the Baofeng might get half a mile. These radio waves are easy to block, but will go miles in open air. Spending more won't get you better.

This isn't the place to chat more about radio, but the 888s thread on Transmission1 is long and detailed.


Most walking talk about 446 points us towards channel8 and away from channel1. It's common for kids to use channel1 as they just turn them on and use them.
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Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby arek_w » Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:47 pm

Hello from the Continent. As every year will be coming to Scotland to bag Munroe's together with my my son (September this year). When we get separated (either just he is younger or we choose to split) we use Baofengs UV5r. Mobile connection in Scotlands is say not really good one, so PMRs do wonderful job . In Poland all throughout our mountains you would listen for channel 3 ctcss 14 (CH3 (446,03125 MHz), ton CTCSS / TSQ 14 (107,2 Hz)) for general hikers chat, METEO warnings as well as for SOS/search and rescue help. Its customary to listen to the channel and if nothing to report just pick up info. Being in Scotland and using hams its an excellent 2 way com. Unfortunately due to wonderful idea of Brexit and reintroduction of roaming PMRs will be more than useful for foreigners. On the Continent its very widely used.
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Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby HedleyP » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:51 pm

Big Wull wrote:hi all

I have just got myself a new set of 2 way radios for doing the kayaking and has got me thinking they would be good for the hillwalking for emergency use and general chit chat.
My question is ..... is there a recognised channel that people/mountain rescue use/listen for emergency traffic I have see channel 8 getting mentioned a few times ....anyone got thoughts or info on this ?


Hi,

SMR moved over to a Digital Mobile Radio (DMR) System using Hytera kit a few years ago and the use of Analogue channels has, except for a couple of exceptions, stopped completely.

This system brings with it a lot of benefits including GPS capabilities so that all assets can be tracked via real time mapping.

As others have said, no channels are monitored and they all use this closed network. 999 or 112 and Police > Mountain Rescue is always your best option.

Now here's the really interesting bit... The four teams in the South of Scotland have linked up using internet enabled repeaters so that a team member in Dunbar can talk to another in Stranraer all with just their handheld radios. The system brings with it a lot of other benefits that I won't bore you with but it also involves injecting VHF in to and out of a Push To Talk Mobile phone application using 4G so they now have truly unified communications!

Regards,

Heds
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Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby AyrshireAlps » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:21 pm

The four teams in the South of Scotland have linked up using internet enabled repeaters so that a team member in Dunbar can talk to another in Stranraer all with just their handheld radios.


I've taken a team radio out on munros a few times, always let our radio officer know so that he keeps a handset handy. We've spoken to each other with him in Newton Stewart and me on Beinn Dorain*.

* But, go into a wee valley a few hundred metres from each other, and they're as much use as any other radio! :lol:
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Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby HedleyP » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:29 pm

AyrshireAlps wrote: But, go into a wee valley a few hundred metres from each other, and they're as much use as any other radio! :lol:


Ah yes that. I just tell them it's user error. ;-)
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Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby AyrshireAlps » Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:58 pm

:lol:
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Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby MacHairy » Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:48 am

I think the OP's original question was reasonable enough, as back when CB radio was 'big' there was nominally a channel reserved for emergency calling (Channel 9) but in the UK this was never official / legally binding and there was nothing to stop people from using channel 9 much like any other. It worked much better in CB radio's country of origin where there was a large voluntary organisation called REACT who did monitor channel 9 - remember this was the pre-internet, pre-mobile age, so being able to get through to someone who had a CB base station and a landline phone really could be a lifesaver in the event of an accident back in those days. It was not unreasonable to ask if there was also a similar arrangement or understanding on PMR446, which is essentially another CB-like system in so far as it is a set of radio frequencies available for general use by the public.

If you are walking in a very remote area where it is highly likely that there will be no mobile signal a simple two-way radio of any sort could prove vital but only if you leave notice, not only of your intended destination and approximate transit times as you hopefully would anyway, but also a radio frequency or PMR446 channel on which to try to contact you in the event that all contact with you is lost. If using PMR446 I suggest nominating just a basic channel, no privacy code (no CTCSS or DCS), because that will only make it harder for any other person looking for you to match the settings on your radio. Keep it simple.

The range of a half-watt UHF PMR446 radio varies dramatically - in towns and cities possibly barely more than a street length, in open level countryside maybe half a mile to two miles, but if one of the sets is on a mountaintop then the range can easily extend to 80 miles and if one of them is in an aircraft, even further. A light, portable two way radio like a PMR446 set could prove critical if you are ever lost in an area with no mobile signal - but ONLY if the parties looking for you know that you have it with you and they know which radio channel or frequency you will be calling / listening on.
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Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby MRG1 » Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:56 pm

Marty_JG wrote:
basscadet wrote:
Jaxter wrote:Worth doing this as often a text can get through when a phone call won't
http://www.emergencysms.org.uk/


So I have heard many times, and yet when I broke my ankle, my 999 call got through no problem, but I couldn't send or receive a text.. :crazy:


That can a happen, sure, any amount of condition/transmitter/phone stuff... but it's worth telling people about the 999 txt service (as that needs to be set-up/aware beforehand) as it gives a person more options.

PS, sorry to hear about the ankle.


Ditto: sorry about your ankle.
Re the message was your phone set to the new protocol?
IE it needs a data signal.
Not many people seem to know about that.
I have got around it by when a message won't send by clicking on the message and choosing the good old fashioned SMS option.
On my phone the new protocol sends as dark blue, SMS as pale blue.
Just a thought.

Edit: yep, quoted the wrong person, I'll try again.
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Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby MRG1 » Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:00 pm

basscadet wrote:
Jaxter wrote:Worth doing this as often a text can get through when a phone call won't
http://www.emergencysms.org.uk/


So I have heard many times, and yet when I broke my ankle, my 999 call got through no problem, but I couldn't send or receive a text.. :crazy:


Ditto: sorry about your ankle.
Re the message was your phone set to the new protocol?
IE it needs a data signal.
Not many people seem to know about that.
I have got around it by when a message won't send by clicking on the message and choosing the good old fashioned SMS option.
On my phone the new protocol sends as dark blue, SMS as pale blue.
Just a thought.
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Re: pmr446 radio emergency channel

Postby Bastonjock » Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:17 am

A hand held would be useful in helping guide in the emergency services combined with a PLB ,to rely on a hand held radio on its own would be foolhardy,
You will not get very far with your signal , generally on the flat you can achieve line of sight and no further,despite the best efforts and countles millions spent by the USA you cannot transceive over the horizon
When solo sailing ,I carry a hand held marine VHF and a PLB ,both attached to my life jacket
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