walkhighlands

This forum is for general discussion about walking and scrambling... If writing a report or sharing your experiences from a route, please use the other boards.

Would you abandon your best mate?

Would you abandon your best mate?


Postby taytay » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:54 am

I only know here what I’ve read online. Apparently a Mr ##### from #### abandoned his 12 year old collie on Beinn Sgulaird when the collie collapsed. The quote from #### family was “he was forced to put his own survival first and leave the dog behind.” The dog did not survive.

So a couple of questions:

1) Would you totally abandon your best mate if he collapsed or went lame.

2) Would it make any difference if your mate happened to be a dog.

Moderator's note: Name and town have been removed from this post
taytay
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Jan 3, 2018

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Ben Nachie » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:10 am

Personally, no, I don't think I would.
I carry enough kit to allow me to hopefully survive outside overnight in any conditions that I might expect at any given time.

If my mate was human I'd stick with them (or go and get help, whichever was the best option).

If my mate was my dog (I have two) I'd put him/her in my rucksack even if it meant dumping some gear which I may or may not need. My heaviest dog weighs about 15kg which is a weight I could carry. A collie is a bit heavier, but I'd still attempt it.

My dogs are like kids to me, I would do everything in my power to get them off the hill.

That's just my personal feeling, having never found myself in that situation. I'm not making any judgments about Mr ####.
User avatar
Ben Nachie
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 354
Joined: Jun 19, 2017

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Border Reiver » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:40 am

It's not really fair to judge unless all the facts are known. However, I would never have abandoned my Golden Retriever, as I know that if I were struggling, he would have stayed with me, as would be the case with any dog. When we take our dogs to the hills we must factor into our planning that things might go wrong and have the means at our disposal to deal with the situation. If you've got to the stage where your own life is in danger, then maybe your planning and skills haven't been as good as you thought.
User avatar
Border Reiver
Wanderer
 
Posts: 1349
Munros:202   Corbetts:7
Grahams:3   Donalds:1
Sub 2000:2   Hewitts:61
Wainwrights:68   
Joined: Feb 18, 2011
Location: North East England

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Caberfeidh » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:43 am

taytay wrote:I only know here what I’ve read online. Apparently a Mr #### from ##### abandoned his 12 year old collie on Beinn Sgulaird when the collie collapsed. The quote from #### family was “he was forced to put his own survival first and leave the dog behind.” The dog did not survive. So a couple of questions:
1) Would you totally abandon your best mate if he collapsed or went lame.
2) Would it make any difference if your mate happened to be a dog.


Did you have to give his name and home town? Are you trying to raise a lynch-mob? You were not there, you do not know the circumstances. They were obviously caught out in very dangerous conditions and forced into that course of action. Why don't you try raising a lynch-mob about Joe Simpson being abandoned by his climbing buddy in the Andes? He even cut the rope! Perhaps you could find out where he lives and we could all go round and throw rocks?
User avatar
Caberfeidh
Mountaineer
 
Posts: 6921
Joined: Feb 5, 2009

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby taytay » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:52 am

Caberfeidh wrote:
taytay wrote:I only know here what I’ve read online. Apparently a Mr #### from #### abandoned his 12 year old collie on Beinn Sgulaird when the collie collapsed. The quote from #### family was “he was forced to put his own survival first and leave the dog behind.” The dog did not survive. So a couple of questions:
1) Would you totally abandon your best mate if he collapsed or went lame.
2) Would it make any difference if your mate happened to be a dog.


Did you have to give his name and home town? Are you trying to raise a lynch-mob? You were not there, you do not know the circumstances. They were obviously caught out in very dangerous conditions and forced into that course of action. Why don't you try raising a lynch-mob about Joe Simpson being abandoned by his climbing buddy in the Andes? He even cut the rope! Perhaps you could find out where he lives and we could all go round and throw rocks?


Well if you care to have a look online you will note that his name and picture are plastered all over the place. Suggest that you do this before getting on your high horse and chucking rocks at me.
taytay
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Jan 3, 2018

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby LeithySuburbs » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:58 am

Caberfeidh wrote:Did you have to give his name and home town?


Not what I would have done but it is still a valid topic for discussion. I pass no judgement on the decision to leave the dog, but - to my mind - this pair were not ready for what they took on if this was the result.

Besides, there were two of them... could they not have cut it in half?
User avatar
LeithySuburbs
Ambler
 
Posts: 1931
Munros:253   Corbetts:50
Grahams:26   Donalds:33
Sub 2000:40   Hewitts:14
Wainwrights:23   
Joined: Feb 19, 2009
Location: The Capital

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Caberfeidh » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:12 pm

LeithySuburbs wrote:Besides, there were two of them... could they not have cut it in half?


Indeed. It could have been worse. Did not Captain Oates cut open a dog's belly and thrust his hands inside the wretched hound's guts to warm himself?
User avatar
Caberfeidh
Mountaineer
 
Posts: 6921
Joined: Feb 5, 2009

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby EllyM » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:59 pm

Ooof. I think this is a really tricky one. I'm quite lucky in that both of the dogs I walk with alone are terriers, and thus small enough and light enough to chuck in a backpack if necessary. However, a number of dogs sometimes come out with my walking group, all the way up to a massive husky! Something of that size, I couldn't move on my own - I think I would probably struggle even with a collie.

I think my dividing line would be whether I was going to put myself or anyone else in danger. If I could carry the dog as far as the nearest road, or bivvy for the night with the dog, and manage to walk it out in the morning, I would choose to stay with it. If it was likely to result in mountain rescue being sent out because I was reported missing, or became exhausted, my inclination would be to leave the dog with as much shelter as possible, mark the point, and return the next morning with a sledge or similar.

I would obviously not 'abandon' a human under any circumstances, even one I didn't like, but although I love my dogs, I think it's disingenuous to suggest that the two circumstances are analogous. At the end of the day, if I was out with a person and a dog and had to choose between them, I would choose to save my worst enemy over my own dog. I would, however, leave a human I had made comfortable in a marked location to fetch help - which as a brief skim of any book on Scottish mountain rescue will make clear, can result in the death of the injured party. There is no sense in injuring or killing yourself trying to save your walking companion, whether they are dog or human.
EllyM
Walker
 
Posts: 19
Munros:40   Corbetts:12
Grahams:6   
Sub 2000:10   
Islands:13
Joined: Oct 19, 2015

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Ben Nachie » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:46 pm

From the Dog Lost Facebook page- "Another relative said their navigation systems ‘froze’ at the top of the hill, before he and a friend eventually found a road.".

Apparently the failure of their electronic navigation systems meant that they were no longer able to properly navigate and did not know the exact location of the dog. This reduced the chances of the dog surviving, put their own lives in danger, and also put the rescuers in danger as they were searching the wrong part of the hill. It's a bugbear of mine but I strongly believe that people should not be going out without a paper map & compass and the knowledge of how to use them.
User avatar
Ben Nachie
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 354
Joined: Jun 19, 2017

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Ben Nachie » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:50 pm

EllyM wrote:I would obviously not 'abandon' a human under any circumstances, even one I didn't like, but although I love my dogs, I think it's disingenuous to suggest that the two circumstances are analogous. At the end of the day, if I was out with a person and a dog and had to choose between them, I would choose to save my worst enemy over my own dog.

I'm not so sure about that, myself. There are some people I'd happily abandon on the hill...
User avatar
Ben Nachie
Mountain Walker
 
Posts: 354
Joined: Jun 19, 2017

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Sunset tripper » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:49 pm

Ben Nachie wrote:There are some people I'd happily abandon on the hill...


Me too in fact I'm now making a list! :D
User avatar
Sunset tripper
 
Posts: 1660
Joined: Nov 3, 2013
Location: Inverness

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Moriarty » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:13 pm

taytay wrote:I only know here what I’ve read online. Apparently a Mr **** ******** from ****** abandoned his 12 year old collie on Beinn Sgulaird when the collie collapsed. The quote from ********'s family was “he was forced to put his own survival first and leave the dog behind.” The dog did not survive.

So a couple of questions:

1) Would you totally abandon your best mate if he collapsed or went lame.

2) Would it make any difference if your mate happened to be a dog.


Personally on almost every armchair commentary about people running into difficulty outdoors or coming to harm I'd say that talk is exceptionally cheap, many people rush to express an opinion and relatively few are worth the electrons emanating from the keyboards/touchscreens in question.

In this case colossal oversupply of talk on various Facebook pages about this incident must mean that talk is so cheap as to have almost no value at all.

A different question perhaps - would you risk not returning to/abandoning your family/children/dependents if the domesticated animal you live with collapsed?

I'm not going to speculate as to what I'd do - until it happens it's self-serving meaningless waffle.
Moriarty
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Dec 15, 2013

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby harry hill » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:19 pm

taytay wrote:I only know here what I’ve read online. Apparently a Mr #### from #### abandoned his 12 year old collie on Beinn Sgulaird when the collie collapsed. The quote from #### family was “he was forced to put his own survival first and leave the dog behind.” The dog did not survive.

So a couple of questions:

1) Would you totally abandon your best mate if he collapsed or went lame.

2) Would it make any difference if your mate happened to be a dog.



What would you do?
harry hill
Ambler
 
Posts: 20
Munros:236   Corbetts:21
Grahams:28   Donalds:89
Joined: Jan 17, 2012

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby buzzard » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:51 pm

Human life will always come before a dogs in my opinion, presuming this was a last resort.
User avatar
buzzard
Wanderer
 
Posts: 72
Munros:9   Corbetts:2
Grahams:1   
Hewitts:3
Wainwrights:7   
Joined: Apr 13, 2009
Location: lands end cornwall

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Backpacker » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:47 pm

I followed a bit of this on FB,

The guy is getting absolutely slated although between the media reports and the hyperbole, it's impossible to know what actually happened. Only the owner and his pal will know what happened.

Would I leave my best mate on a mountain? If my own life was in jeopardy, yes I would. (Obv once/if I get a phone reception the relevant authorities would be called).

If my life wasn't in jeopardy, it'd be a case of dig in and wait it out.
User avatar
Backpacker
Wanderer
 
Posts: 1211
Munros:275   Corbetts:50
Grahams:30   
Sub 2000:48   
Islands:4
Joined: Jan 8, 2013
Location: Laurencekirk

Next



Walkhighlands community forum is now advert free

We need help to keep the site online.
Can you help support Walkhighlands and the online community by setting up a monthly donation by direct debit?



Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests