Would you abandon your best mate?

[walkingpoles]

I find this public shaming coming from the anonymous internet quite dangerous. I hope the OP never has to read his/her name like that on social media after something went wrong. Throwing rocks isn't far. And if you think he deserves it, please think again.

Reading two sources out there, mountain rescue apparently don't blame him for his decision. I won't neither. Now I hope nobody throws rocks at mountain rescue because of that, but I am sure some are tempted. All the comments I saw on social media are just talking hot air without neither knowing what really happened, nor what they tried to save the dog, nor in what condition the men were. Some people condemning him even do not have an idea how bad weather on mountains in winter can look like. The problem is not about feeling some discomfort when you have to spend a night in a blizzard.

I find the discussion about what went wrong before tragedy struck much more important. Usually there is a build up There might be a lesson there about planning, turning back, experience, dogs, navigation or equipment. But with his name public, even this does more harm than good.

[taytay]

I only know here what I’ve read online. Apparently a Mr #### from #### abandoned his 12 year old collie on Beinn Sgulaird when the collie collapsed. The quote from #### family was “he was forced to put his own survival first and leave the dog behind.” The dog did not survive.

So a couple of questions:

1) Would you totally abandon your best mate if he collapsed or went lame.

2) Would it make any difference if your mate happened to be a dog.

What would you do?

1) I've dealt with both scenarios in my time. As regards collapsed I couldn't carry the hulking brute so we waited around and when he came around we had a chat and something to eat and decided that we might just make it. We did. He never did find out what caused it. As regards lame then I ended up carrying two rucksacs and he hobbled along on two sticks after some TLC to his leg.
2) My hillwalking pooch was a Husky who would probably have survived better than me in the winter. If anything did happen to him then I would have either sat it out overnight [not difficult if you're properly equipped] or drag him on my rucksac. He was a tad heavy on your shoulders but I might have managed.

That answer your question?

[taytay]

I find this public shaming coming from the anonymous internet quite dangerous. I hope the OP never has to read his/her name like that on social media after something went wrong. Throwing rocks isn't far. And if you think he deserves it, please think again.

Reading two sources out there, mountain rescue apparently don't blame him for his decision. I won't neither. Now I hope nobody throws rocks at mountain rescue because of that, but I am sure some are tempted. All the comments I saw on social media are just talking hot air without neither knowing what really happened, nor what they tried to save the dog, nor in what condition the men were. Some people condemning him even do not have an idea how bad weather on mountains in winter can look like. The problem is not about feeling some discomfort when you have to spend a night in a blizzard.

I find the discussion about what went wrong before tragedy struck much more important. Usually there is a build up There might be a lesson there about planning, turning back, experience, dogs, navigation or equipment. But with his name public, even this does more harm than good.

I hope the OP never has to read his/her name like that on social media after something went wrong.......The OP (me) didn't make this guy the ogre of the piece or was even the first to name and shame him. If you care to peruse the net you will note that his name and his picture was spread all over several newspapers. Facebook, blogs and etc several days before I mentioned it!

I did not slate either the guy or M.R. I mentioned one quote and one quote only and that was from the guys family.. I read a lot of posts and floated questions based on possible scenarios.

[rockhopper]

Must admit that I tend to stay out of this sort of discussion as I generally don't know all the facts and wouldn't like to guess how I'd react in a hypothetical situation. Oddly enough, someone appears to have posted the same question on another website - it's interesting to read and compare the readers' comments - cheers

[Holly]

There is a saying that goes like this,,,,, If you refuse to poke the stick at the witch then you will be accused of being a witch. I believe there was so many horrible accusations flying around it was impossible for anyone giving any reasoned opinion to escape a barrage of abuse. I was the subject of part of it when I made comment that I still take my 12 year old dog out with me to the effect I was going to be reported to the SPCA! This all indirectly because I would not slate and attack the individual in question.

I believe I can safely make comment here without being shot at dawn. I carry a harness that would enable me to move my dog safely if he got into trouble and I also have my survival bag I would hope to make use of as a stretcher if I were ever in the unfortunate position to have to use it. He is still a fit dog with the stiffness I also experience after a long day. If I have it and can deal with it, so can he.

Despite many efforts to forsee and risk assess when we go out, there are always decisions that can be made that may not be the best ones. But we take our chances and with the experience we gain, we learn, and,, from the mistakes we make we become better and learning goes on and on.

Some people make big big life changing deeply regretful errors of judgement. But panic and fear are two emotions that few of us could predict as to how these powerful emotions could affect our decision making skills. Hopefully most of us never have to but ? Some come into their own and manage well ? Some don't? But regardless,,, the mistakes made are for those people to live with and I am sure this man will be suffering enough without a baying mass of judgement bringers spouting fire and brimstone and quite disturbing threatening comments that were quite uncalled for.

Would I abandon my dog? No would be my answer purely from the point of view that because I am aware things can go wrong, for some time I already have prepared for this very eventuality although I hope I never have to put it into practise. My younger fit dog could break her leg in a rabbit hole and the same scenario would arise. Thats why I carry what I carry. To reduce risks.

[Robinho08]

I've followed this story pretty much since day 1, the guy didn't help himself to be honest. He led volunteers searchers astray with inaccurate locations and did not show up until Friday where he found the dog within the hour of arriving at the scene after others spent 4 days looking for Meg. His stories didn't add up and his family made statements on his behalf which didn't help either. Didn't thank the searchers, just a text to say he found her and it isn't good news.

He was ill equipped for a winter Munro and climbed it in bad weather relying on smartphones without proper mapping apps. He made a series of bad decisions before even setting foot on the mountain and his poor dog paid the price for his errors.

Also attempted to take the same dog up the Aonach Eagach in 2015 and had to turn back.

SSPCA are now investigating!

PS. His full name and town is in the press; Scottish Sun, Daily Record, Metro, Mirror, Daily Mail, Uni Lad etc etc.

[LeithySuburbs]

Must admit that I tend to stay out of this sort of discussion as I generally don't know all the facts and wouldn't like to guess how I'd react in a hypothetical situation.

Where's the fun in that ?

Oddly enough, someone appears to have posted the same question on another website

They could almost have been written by the same person.

[taytay]

Must admit that I tend to stay out of this sort of discussion as I generally don't know all the facts and wouldn't like to guess how I'd react in a hypothetical situation.

Where's the fun in that ?

Oddly enough, someone appears to have posted the same question on another website

They could almost have been written by the same person.

..........Gosh an amazing piece of deduction Watson

Memo to self: Musn’t get Cynical

[LeithySuburbs]

Gosh an amazing piece of deduction Watson

Memo to self: Musn’t get Cynical

It's not unreasonable to wonder why you are so enrapt by this story.

[taytay]

Gosh an amazing piece of deduction Watson

Memo to self: Musn’t get Cynical

It's not unreasonable to wonder why you are so enrapt by this story.

Wonder away if it amuses you. Personally I feel no need to explain myself but if others are interested then I suppose that it’s a way of passing their time. It is a wet and drizzly morning so in my personal life I’m off for a snooze.

[LeithySuburbs]

Personally I feel no need to explain myself

That's convenient.

[Pastychomper]

I'm not commenting on the story, except to say I'm glad the guy had the sense to turn back at least once before, but it did get me thinking about preparation. Like some others in this thread, I'm pretty sure that as long as all my limbs were functioning I could have carried any dog I've taken back down a mountain - but only if I could pick the dog up to start with.

A few weeks ago I was a passenger in a car that ran over a dog (which jumped out of a long verge at the wrong moment), and the dog was in so much shock and pain that she quickly and severely bit anyone who tried to move her, which included her owner and me. This was a medium-sized, good-natured, well-cared for pet who lay quietly and allowed herself to be touched and, to an extent, examined, but couldn't/wouldn't be picked up even 10 minutes later. The owner had to wait for a vet to arrive with a sedative.

Fortunately I haven't had the need to try it with my own dog, but after the above experience I can well imagine a mountainside situation in which the only viable choices are (1) stay with the injured party and wait for assistance (which implies being able to call for assistance) and (2) leave the injured party there while going for assistance. That won't stop me taking a dog up any mountain, but it probably will affect my preparations in some cases.

[apollo0815]

I won't comment on the base question, too. But for the dog carrriers: One of our dogs( deceased by now) had a heart problem which we didn't know at that time.
He collapsed while doing a normal dog walk, but still we where a few kilometres out of town. I carried this 25 kg dog home, not having any backpack at that time( normal dog walk)
It was very very very hard work. And I cannot imagine doing that during a storm, with no proper path to set foot on.

[Dan Scheer]

It's always easy having the moral highground from he comfort of your home. Unless you have been in a life or death situation, you will never know how you will react no matter how much you would like to think you would do the 'right' thing. How do you even know you are in a life or death situation and not just well out your comfort zone? Our natural self defence mechanism are pretty good at tricking us into thinking we are beyone exhausted when we actually still have plenty of reserves left. If we find it hard to judge our own state, wouldn't it be quite arrogant to think you could judge someone elses condition, especially just based on stuff written in the news or social media?
Sure, the entire situaton could have been prevented had he been better prepared etc etc, but who here hasn't misjudged the conditions, their own fitness, knowledge gear etc?
I have done all the courses I could find, from navigation to winter mountaineering, climbing, scrambling, survival and so, plan my trips and gear with all sort of possible scenarios in mind and still I got myself into sitations occasionally that I probably shouldn't have been in... so why judge someone else? The guy will have to live with the knowlegde he let his dog die and it probably wasn't an easy choice so why give him more ****? What if he had young kids? Pretty stupid to risk the kids having to grow up withour a father figure over the life of a dog, no matter how much of a dog lover you are!

as for your questions:
1) of course I would never abandon my best friend, I would rather die alongside them (in theory, the reality would probably be quite the opposite but hopefully I will never find out)
2) I absolutely cannot stand dogs, so pretty unlikely I would ever need to think about that situation

[StevenF]

1) Would you totally abandon your best mate if he collapsed or went lame.

Yes, if not abandoning him would lead to my certain death. Of course this is not desirable but letting my children grow up without a father because I chose to make a grand futile gesture seems wrong.

2) Would it make any difference if your mate happened to be a dog.

obviously yes.