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Would you abandon your best mate?

Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby BobMcBob » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:33 pm

taytay wrote:And yes I like dogs & I’m sad when they aren’t given the treatment I think that they deserve.


So you feel the dog deserved better than to be left to die. Well woopy-doo. I don't think any single human being with an ounce of compassion could disagree with you there, so I can't believe that was the point you were trying to make. So I still don't know why you bothered posting this in the first place if it wasn't an outlet for your outrage. Indeed, multiple postings on multiple sites looks exactly like an attempt at rabble-rousing. The fact his name is available anywhere but you chose to put it in your post anyway just makes it look even more like a witch hunt.

If you think you can judge this man - or any man - for his actions in extreme circumstances, or if you think you know how you would behave in the same circumstances, then you do not understand the nature of the circumstances.

I speak as someone who has been in similar circumstances and remain to this day shocked by my own behaviour. I wouldn't dream of even guessing how I'd behave if it happened again.
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Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Duggie12 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:48 am

I don't know what I'd do hard to say unless in that situation, the mountain rescue team didn't criticise him and that's good enough for me though

Read some of the comments about this story on Facebook and the reaction has been hysterical. Lots of people saying they are grieving over a dog they didn't know, vigil's/walks/memory plaques organised and so on, I like dogs as much as the next person but it has got a bit ridiculous
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Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Robinho08 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:38 pm

Duggie12 wrote:I don't know what I'd do hard to say unless in that situation, the mountain rescue team didn't criticise him and that's good enough for me though

Read some of the comments about this story on Facebook and the reaction has been hysterical. Lots of people saying they are grieving over a dog they didn't know, vigil's/walks/memory plaques organised and so on, I like dogs as much as the next person but it has got a bit ridiculous


It is getting a bit OTT now, but to be honest I don't think MRT knew the full facts when they made that statement.
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Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Old Stag » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:37 pm

Did they leave the dog tied to a deer fence?
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Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby mynthdd2 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:58 pm

as a Billy no Mates the question is irrelevant
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Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Wok de dog » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:29 pm

Taytay,
I don't think you mentioned his name with any malice. Sometimes in these forums we meet the type of people that we go up the hills to avoid.
In answer to your question, I could not imagine getting in to such a situation but, in an extreme situation,I would expect to be left.
There is an app, os locate, that will give an 8 or 10 digit grid reference that would have been quite handy here. I'm always concerned that,in the event of an emergency, my walking friends wouldn't know how to report where we are.
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Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Sgurr » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:12 pm

Today's story on the Welsh rescue on Y Aran gives details. Am on phone and don't know how to post links.
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Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Ben Nachie » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:08 am

Sgurr wrote:Today's story on the Welsh rescue on Y Aran gives details. Am on phone and don't know how to post links.

Sarloc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-42844942

A very good idea and sensible to download it to your phone before setting out as there are many places with no data connection in the highlands.

It does need a functioning phone to work though, which as we've seen recently can be part of the problem, but still a very worthwhile app.
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Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Arthurs Eat » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:41 am

Dan Scheer wrote:It's always easy having the moral highground from he comfort of your home. Unless you have been in a life or death situation, you will never know how you will react no matter how much you would like to think you would do the 'right' thing. How do you even know you are in a life or death situation and not just well out your comfort zone? Our natural self defence mechanism are pretty good at tricking us into thinking we are beyone exhausted when we actually still have plenty of reserves left. If we find it hard to judge our own state, wouldn't it be quite arrogant to think you could judge someone elses condition, especially just based on stuff written in the news or social media?
Sure, the entire situaton could have been prevented had he been better prepared etc etc, but who here hasn't misjudged the conditions, their own fitness, knowledge gear etc?
I have done all the courses I could find, from navigation to winter mountaineering, climbing, scrambling, survival and so, plan my trips and gear with all sort of possible scenarios in mind and still I got myself into sitations occasionally that I probably shouldn't have been in... so why judge someone else? The guy will have to live with the knowlegde he let his dog die and it probably wasn't an easy choice so why give him more ****? What if he had young kids? Pretty stupid to risk the kids having to grow up withour a father figure over the life of a dog, no matter how much of a dog lover you are!


Bit of a strange question. I would hope we would all like to think we would do our best in any difficult situation. As to what we might do when that situation actually happens I believe is an entirely different matter. We should not kid ourselves on otherwise.
as for your questions:
1) of course I would never abandon my best friend, I would rather die alongside them (in theory, the reality would probably be quite the opposite but hopefully I will never find out)
2) I absolutely cannot stand dogs, so pretty unlikely I would ever need to think about that situation ;)
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Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Caberfeidh » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:25 am

Hamish MacInnes writes of a time in the Himalaya when he and his mate had to slaughter and butcher a sheep they had brought with them. Native Americans used to eat dog, people in a lot of Far Eastern countries eat dog. It is not too much of a stretch to put the question - Would you eat your best mate? And would it make a difference if he was a dog? I met a bloke who had been snowed in at a bothy in the Cairngorms for a week. He ran out of food after a few days. It could have turned nasty if there had been another person there. Just sayin'...
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Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Beaner001 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:15 pm

It's a very hard one to reply with any real certainty, we can all say what we'd like to think we'd do but only those whom have experienced a similar situation can answer but they'd be answering with fact.

The poor guy will have a heavy conscience.

On another note it is amazing what people will do for their animals, when in the dessert we came across a few Arabs that had a camel that had taken unwell, we loaded it onto the truck and took it to a nearby town and they gave us a huge jar of camels milk (far too rich to drink, it likely would have made us seriously ill) and a real Rolex watch. On the back of the Rolex was a guys name and the company Name ARAMCO and date. It must have been a gift for the guy whose name was on the watch for years service (certainly didn't belong to the Arab). This stuck with me as I'd never seen a Rolex and haven't seen one since, but the second hand,sweeping has always fascinated me compared to other watch makers :lol:
We all played cards for the watch and I didn't win it. I bumped into the guy that won it in 2013 and he still had it and had turned into a heavy drinker, I found out before xmas he has since died. Was it the watch and wonder what he did with it? 8)
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Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby spiderwebb » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:24 pm

Before even contemplating the situations in question I carry with me a phrase once seen.... Don't be judgemental on anyone for you know not what battles they may have faced just to get up in the morning..... so very true.

The forums mentioned and the recent incident on the BBC, certainly demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge of hill walking, weather, or common sense for that matter. Regarding the weather and the responses slating them for going out in such obviously forecast conditions !!!! The weather can vary so much and sometimes within a few yards, wind can go from 60mph to nothing, or vice versa. But enough on the armchair warriors wanting Insurance for this sport, when no one involved in the sport wants it, so in answer to them, it doesn't impact you so stay out !

As for leaving my dog. I have been in the situation twice where one of my Springers went missing. The first on a clear day, followed by 4 days of searching, together with help from some terrific and like minded folk. The second time in local woods, where we believe he must have been snatched, given his close proximity (albeit out of sight) to us, and his inability to run due to age, but I digress. Both incidents were heart wrenching :(

So many factors would affect any decision on a mountain, but I can only comment on what I would hope to do. I cannot imagine a situation where I would have left my dog, although I accept that there could be situations that would necessitate it in others eyes. For me personally I would either try and carry my dog off the hill, something I could have managed with Holly (my Springer bitch), but not so easily with Sam, he was considerably heavier. I would seek shelter, or manufacture it, snow coffin or such like. But I honestly don't think I could have left her or him, even at cost to myself. The same would apply to anyone I was walking with, I would die trying.
For fear of sounding bold, over brave or even dare I say heroic, it comes from a sense of being at home in the mountains, whilst acknowledging I'm not invincible (at least not like I thought when I was a lot younger) and no doubt in no small part to how one values their own life. I don't value mine as I did, or maybe should, at least not over that of friends or dogs.
That comes from a sense of how one feels about themselves and reflects on my opening paragraph.
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Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Robinho08 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:13 am

Ben Nachie wrote:
Sgurr wrote:Today's story on the Welsh rescue on Y Aran gives details. Am on phone and don't know how to post links.

Sarloc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-42844942

A very good idea and sensible to download it to your phone before setting out as there are many places with no data connection in the highlands.

It does need a functioning phone to work though, which as we've seen recently can be part of the problem, but still a very worthwhile app.


This is misleading. Sarloc is not available for the general public to download. It is an app that MR use to locate lost walkers. For it to work the lost person(s) need a GPS enabled smartphone with internet coverage. Sarloc pings the text message with a link to open, this returns the exact location to MR. From here they can either give out instructions to get off safely or instruct the rescuers with a location.
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Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby kmai1961 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:27 am

I think there's a bit of confusion here, between Sarloc and OS Locate, which Wok de dog mentioned above.

OS Locate IS available to the general public, and it's free. It gives YOU your own 6-grid OS reference, so you can look at your map and figure out where you are. On my Android phone, it works even when in flight mode, so if you have any battery power, you should be able to get a grid reference. I assume it's the same on other phones as well. You can download it from:

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/shop/os-locate/
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Re: Would you abandon your best mate?

Postby Ben Nachie » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:06 am

Robinho08 wrote:
Ben Nachie wrote:
Sgurr wrote:Today's story on the Welsh rescue on Y Aran gives details. Am on phone and don't know how to post links.

Sarloc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-42844942

A very good idea and sensible to download it to your phone before setting out as there are many places with no data connection in the highlands.

It does need a functioning phone to work though, which as we've seen recently can be part of the problem, but still a very worthwhile app.


This is misleading. Sarloc is not available for the general public to download. It is an app that MR use to locate lost walkers. For it to work the lost person(s) need a GPS enabled smartphone with internet coverage. Sarloc pings the text message with a link to open, this returns the exact location to MR. From here they can either give out instructions to get off safely or instruct the rescuers with a location.


My apologies, I did not fully understand how it works.
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