Safety of melting snow

[giuliapeddi]

I understand this question might be the subject of mountaineering courses, which I'd like to take maybe next winter, but I was wondering if someone would satisfy my curiosity anyway.

During the last Easter break a friend and I were camped at the western side of Loch Avon in the Cairngorms and, instead of going back through the Saddle where we had come from (the lowest elevation northern pass, after following river Nethy), we thought we'd go back a different way, namely the pass closer to our wild camp, to the right of Stag Rocks (looking north).
It was either April 1st or 2nd, it had been snowing and everything was covered in snow, so that morning we decided to enjoy the warmth of our sun-bathed tent and leave our stuff out to dry, in the end setting off quite late. By the time we reached the point of the pass where the heather ended and only snow-covered rocks remained, it was early afternoon and the sun had been warming up the snow for many hours, so much so that you could see many snowballs rolling down towards the lake. We had microspikes but not ice axes and the pass looked very steep to my inexperienced eyes (this was my first backpacking trip, and my first time out in winter conditions). The snow up to that point had been alternating between hard frozen and very soft, and I was wary of both types. In the end I didn't wanna take a chance and asked my friend if we could back out of this plan and go back via the saddle which I knew was safe. I felt like a wuss but I also slipped on snow not ten minutes later, despite wearing microspikes, starting to slide down towards the lake (thankfully my friend caught me).

To this day I can't tell if that was the right decision or if that had been doable. Looking at the distance from the end of the lake, it looks like we were aiming for the right pass, but since everything was covered in snow or heather (so no footsteps) and we couldn't see the trail, I'm not sure. The pass doesn't look that steep on the maps, but it looked that way to me when I was there.

So after all this babbling, my question is... Is melting snow a bad idea in general? Does it depend on other factors? Are there ways to determine whether a certain pass is safe to cross or not?

Again, I plan on taking a proper course soon, but it's been eating at me for 3 months so I was wondering if someone would satisfy my curiosity =)

Happy trails,
Giulia

[davekeiller]

Melting snow is likely to be unstable and may avalanche. It's often a bad idea, although it does depend on other factors.
Whether a route is safe depends on a number of factors, and you sometimes need to physically be on the ground and make a judgement call.

This kind of thing is the subject of many books and courses, and I'd recommend taking such a course to learn about this complex subject in a structured way.

[jmarkb]

Given there had been recent snow, then there probably was some degree of avalanche risk: roller balls/sunwheels are a sign of surface instability. However, following the line of the burn up into Coire Raibert should have been safe enough.

You did the right thing though, because you didn’t have the correct equipment for steep snow: you should carry an ice axe (and have the knowledge of how to use it to arrest a slide). Microspikes are also not appropriate for steep ground: in fact they are pretty rubbish in conditions with a soft surface layer and icy stuff underneath. I was still carrying (and using) an axe and crampons in the hills that same week.

I would definitely recommend going on a winter skills course.

[Ben Nachie]

Ice axe, ice axe, ice axe!

Get one and learn how to use it. The safety of snow, melting or otherwise, varies greatly depending on many factors, which you'll learn by experience over time, and also from a winter skills course. You should not really attempt to cross snow in the hills without an axe however.

Crampons and microspikes are secondary, allowing you to tackle a wider range of conditions with more ease than an axe alone.

I'm generalising slightly, but keeping it simple to make the point.

[Caberfeidh]

I agree with the consensus that melting snow is unstable and likely to slip away from under you. Reading any of the mountaineers tales of climbing high icy mountains will tell you that they set off in darkness of early morning to avoid the avalanches caused by sun on snow. Microspikes are only good for walking on icy poaths not for hiking up steep ground. For winter conditions you need an ice axe and crampons, don't let anyone fob you off with notions of lesser kit being ok. One slip and you smack your head off a rock and you've had it. I have a thing about helmets which others seem to find laughable but I worked in Intensive Care Units where I often had patients who had fallen, siply form standing to horizontal, in town on pavements, and they ended up with profuse bleeding throughout the brain and thus died. This happens in the hills a lot, and a cheap helmet as used by snows-ports enthusiasts will save your life. It also saves you from cold wind/sleet/hail draining you by battering your head. Spend the money required on good kit and it will last you years and save you over and over. Also, if something doesn't feel right, then don't do it. You didn't like the look/feel of what was happening and did the right thing by getting back out of it. Well done. A course will teach you only so much, try joining a club and learning from others as you go. Reading up and learning from others' experience is good too. An excellent book which I keep recommending is Hillwalking and Scrambling by Steve Ashton, available from Amazon for much cheapness. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hillwalking-Scrambling-Steve-Ashton/dp/094628458X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1529909070&sr=8-1&keywords=hillwalking+and+scrambling+by+steve+ashton

Hemets - inexpensive

[jmarkb]

There's melting snow and there's melting snow! A thin layer of melting snow overlying an icy layer can be very tricky: even crampons may not bite well into the harder layer. On the other hand, if the snow pack is soft to a reasonable depth, as often happens in late spring, and your boot can penetrate far enough to provide a solid platform, then it can be straightforward going and give fast and easy descents.