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Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby Glengavel » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:20 am

Giant Stoneater wrote:Although the hike in parking charges are beyond belief it will be on par with the Lake District and Snowdonia which is about £8.
I don't think the charges will put folk off,i was climbing Snowdon a few weeks ago and all car parks were full from about 4.30am,when i arrived by bus at 8.30 a lot of folk were trying to make other plans and no doubt other car parks were full by then also.

When you think how much you actually spend when you get up first thing in the morning to the start of a walk and home again,breakfast,sandwiches,drinks,petrol,beer etc, some people wouldn't leave the house if they worked out the cost.


But I'd have breakfast, sandwiches and drinks anyway (OK, and the beer...) so all it's costing me is the fuel and the parking (OK, and possibly an extra beer...).
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Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby Sunset tripper » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:12 pm

al78 wrote:
No it is not going to put people off hillwalking. There is no shortage of hills to climb where parking is free or very cheap.


You mean like Arrocher before these changes?
What's to stop every car park charging large fees like they do down south?

It's all very well saying there should be less cars on the road but the public transport links in the highlands are appalling and expensive.
The Scottish government who proclaims to be trying to make us more healthy with various policies should be making sure all these car parks are free or reasonably priced to encourage people to take part in these healthy activities.
If they want less cars on the road with an increasing population the government should provide half decent affordable public transport. :(
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Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby Sunset tripper » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:18 pm

prog99 wrote:
al78 wrote:
No it is not going to put people off hillwalking. There is no shortage of hills to climb where parking is free or very cheap.

It’s one of the closest good hill days out to Scotland’s largest city, the cobbler is an iconic hill. The car park is always rammed. I think it will put folk off.

I agree it will put people off but it doesn't really matter to the authorities because even If the amount of people using the car park halved they are still cashing it in. It is easy money and they can't lose. :(
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Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby Gareth Harper » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:34 pm

I think that everyone understands that it costs money to build and maintain car parks, and most people are probably happy to contribute. However, are these charges in any way related to the true economic cost of maintaining the facility or is it just profiteering?
It's not really fair to compare with city centre car parks because the costs in a city centre are likely to be higher, and because part of the reason for charging is to try and discourage people from driving into city centres and encouraging public transport use.

Given that this car park is only about an hour's drive from Glasgow and is at the start of some really good walks, I suspect that this will put some people off. It's unlikely to deter people who are already keen hillwalkers (they'll either put up with it or go elsewhere), but I suspect there are quite a few people for whom it's their first taste of hillwalking and they might not even make the first step.


I completely agree with this post from Dave Keiller. It’s spot on. I don’t drive into Glasgow, I park my car near a subway station and take the tube in.

As Dave says few people resent paying a quid or two to park near the start of their walk, but irrespective of whether folks can afford it or not, people resent being ripped off.

Argyll and Bute Council need to think again.
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Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby Coop » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:57 pm

Hope you don't mind me copying and pasting this from the article Helen

"Walkers who wish to voice their opposition to this 800% increase in parking charges at Arrochar are encouraged to contact Mr Cleland Sneddon, CEO of Argyll & Bute Council. The Leader of the Council is Ms Aileen Morton. The Constituency MSP for the area is Ms Jackie Baillie."
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Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby Sunset tripper » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:15 pm

Coop wrote:Hope you don't mind me copying and pasting this from the article Helen

"Walkers who wish to voice their opposition to this 800% increase in parking charges at Arrochar are encouraged to contact Mr Cleland Sneddon, CEO of Argyll & Bute Council. The Leader of the Council is Ms Aileen Morton. The Constituency MSP for the area is Ms Jackie Baillie."


Cheers for posting. I've just read the article and I think the guy from Mountaineering Scotland has scored a massive own goal by saying his members would be happy to pay £4 which is still a 300% increase :shock: . Surely he should be fighting for zero increase or free parking. Hopefully the Scottish government will see sense and have a word with Argyll & Bute. Overpricing alcohol and sugary drinks to try and make people more healthy is one thing but then on the other hand pricing people out of car parks used for recreation makes little sense. :?
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Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby gman » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:53 pm

I use these car parks a couple of dozen times a year, they're busy on summer weekends but quiet at other times. I've often seen council staff giving penalty notices to cars who aren't displaying tickets or who are parked outside the marked bays.

I think experienced walkers aren't used to paying nine quid for parking so it's going to be a hard sell. I'll probably be looking at alternatives like Beinn an Lochain & Inveruglas for short days, and 9 quid would pay for the extra fuel to Glencoe which is tough competition for Arrochar.

The hardest hit, I reckon, will be newish hillwalkers and tourists who haven't a clue how long it takes to get up the Cobbler, and if they make a mistake they could be returning to a parking ticket which seems a bit unfair. A&B Council are bringing in similar increases at Inveraray, Oban etc but these car parks are easy to return to if you need to top up. Arrochar seems like a special case given its usage.
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Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby KatTai » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:59 pm

Does that mean they've actually fixed the parking machines there? Maybe they are trying to make up for not getting anything out of the car park in the time that the machines have been out of order! Regardless, £9 a day? I think I'll go somewhere else, there are plenty more hills all they are doing is punishing new hill walkers and tourists for daring to want to explore Scotland's great outdoors.
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Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby Cairngormwanderer » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:13 pm

Sunset tripper wrote: I've just read the article and I think the guy from Mountaineering Scotland has scored a massive own goal by saying his members would be happy to pay £4 which is still a 300% increase :shock: . Surely he should be fighting for zero increase or free parking.

Mountaineering Scotland does survey members' opinions and a recent survey showed that a majority of those who responded thought modest parking charges were reasonable where the money collected was reinvested in maintenance/conservation.
We're a membership organisation, so it would be a bit odd if we flew in the face of what members are telling us.
On top of that, it's a case of being pragmatic. £3-4 seems to be a rough benchmark for similar car parks (Cairngorm, Forestry Commission, Nevis Range etc). If we try to press for free parking, or even a freeze, when these charges have been operating elsewhere already, we're likely to achieve nothing; a compromise is far more achievable.
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Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby Sunset tripper » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:25 pm

Cairngormwanderer wrote:Mountaineering Scotland does survey members' opinions and a recent survey showed that a majority of those who responded thought modest parking charges were reasonable where the money collected was reinvested in maintenance/conservation.
We're a membership organisation, so it would be a bit odd if we flew in the face of what members are telling us.
On top of that, it's a case of being pragmatic. £3-4 seems to be a rough benchmark for similar car parks (Cairngorm, Forestry Commission, Nevis Range etc). If we try to press for free parking, or even a freeze, when these charges have been operating elsewhere already, we're likely to achieve nothing; a compromise is far more achievable.


It's a very naive statement though. Why say you are willing to pay £3 or £4 for a start? That means you are willing to pay £4 for parking areas that are now free, there was little point mentioning £3 in the statement. Mountaineering Scotland has given the green light and approval for the implementing of £4 charges at every car park in Glencoe for example. Also it is a simple negotiating tactic to offer less than you are willing to pay. Some bright spark in many councils who do not charge for parking at popular areas may well be saying we need to charge at least £4 because people are actually happy to pay it and let's be honest if they are happy to pay £4 they won't be too bothered about £4.50 or £5.
To be fair it will probably make little difference what Mountaineering Scotland think or want as there is a good chance the charges are going to be non negotiable.

Maybe Arrocher could charge Mountaineering Scotland members £4 and leave it at £1 for everyone else who disagrees with it. :D
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Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby nick70 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:02 pm

I have to concur with what Kat Tai has said here. I was last in area this February to do Glen Loin Forest walk and none of the ticket machines were working. Is this increase due to lost revenue?
It would be interesting to know how long the machines haven't been working. This also brings me to next point, at £9 a day I fear that you may get some unsavoury types who will vandalise machines and hit out with the "weren't working, couldn't pay" line.
A common sense approach needs to be adopted here. I think a charge of £3 is acceptable.
Also as some other poster has mentioned, what about those that may be camping overnight on hills. How exactly will this be overcome and managed?
I would also be interested to hear what the local businesses (pubs, shops, restaurants and chippies) say, it would be interesting to see if they have been consulted on this? I can see them also suffering financially.
A common sense approach needs to be adopted here and more parties need to be consulted.
To me it seems crazy that something like this is happening.
Hopefully common sense will prevail.
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Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby Moriarty » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:42 pm

Unlike some (but like most I suspect) there's no way I'm expecting local or national taxpayers to part or wholly subsidise parking for my jollies. Free parking would be great, but I don't object to fees covering costs or those being invested back in shoring up paths etc against the pressures and impact that we, as a group, create.

If some magic unicorn f*rted out a cash injection into the economy I'd rather see free/heavily subsidised transport from more deprived city areas to the country, rather than funding the not so badly off/doing OK/well off who can already afford to spend on cars/fuel/running costs to get there.

That said, this price hike runs contrary to the best interests of an unhealthy nation by gouging visitors and providing a barrier to access to healthy pursuits at one of the favoured destinations for one of the least healthy cities in Europe. It's good to see Outdoors organisations bringing pressure to bear, and doing so with a realistic, co-operative approach rather than coming across as self-absorbed and demanding.
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Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby Giant Stoneater » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:12 am

KatTai wrote:Does that mean they've actually fixed the parking machines there? Maybe they are trying to make up for not getting anything out of the car park in the time that the machines have been out of order! Regardless, £9 a day? I think I'll go somewhere else, there are plenty more hills all they are doing is punishing new hill walkers and tourists for daring to want to explore Scotland's great outdoors.



From a notice I seen one day on the machines was that if the Succoth parking machines are not working you are supposed to use the Loch Long car park machines to get your ticket.
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Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby weedavie » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:48 pm

Nothing like parking to get discussion going. I live in Stockbridge in Edinburgh, local politics is entirely about bins and parking. Serious problems at the moment in the hills are the hare cull (this site still says Ben Chonzie has a large population although they got massacred at least 10 years ago) and the creation of ugly tracks for mini-hydro. Who cares though as long as you can get parked for free?

The Arrochar to the Cobbler motorway is as wild and woolly as Alton Towers and you don't expect to get in there for nothing.There are still a lot of ways to get into these hills that don't involve industrial parking and ascent up what's practically an escalator. Recently I did Cnoc Coinnich from Balloch railway station by bike. OK, while it had its fun elements, it was clearly a mistake but no parking problems. I was up the Luss hills a month ago and parked in Luss which was a fiver for about half a day. Now that's roughly what a pint of real ale costs along the WHW. Yet another serious issue nobody gets bothered about.
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Re: Parking charges at Succoth, Arrochar.

Postby Riverman » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:17 pm

I voted with my feet today. Over from Belgium for a family wedding by Loch Lomond this weekend. Today my wife and I planned to go up the Cobbler but reading about the new charges decided to go over to Loch Earn and climb Ben Vorlich instead.

I have no problem with paying for parking when climbing hills. A few quid here and there is a drop in the ocean next to all the other travel costs that I face. But a nine fold increase out of the blue is taking the pi**. I hope the authorities will see sense and reduce it to a more modest sum. £3 or £4 for a days parking inside a national park would not be unreasonable provided that the proceeds are appropriately reinvested.
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