What is a Donald? - Feedback request

[rockhopper]

Granted I have a vested interest but, to me, I think the 89 should remain as at present to keep them on a similar basis to the other categories,eg the munros/corbetts/grahams lists don't include tops so I don't see why the donalds should include tops/new donalds - just my tuppenceworth although I know I'll never finish the grahams - cheers

[Paul Webster]

Would it not be possible to leave the Donalds as they are but add a new "catagory" for the Donald Tops? That way people can chose if they want to record the Tops or not.

Thanks for suggestion.

We really want to avoid increasing the number of hill categories as it makes tagging trip reports harder and more confusing, and also we'd have to remove the hill tallys from the mini profile next to people's posts as there is no more space. I think it would also be very strange if we had a separate category for Donald Tops but not Tops for any of the other lists, that actually have much more significant Tops. One of the more common bits of feedback we hear from new people who are signing up and trying to write first reports is that they are confused already over the number and complexity of the lists - most have only heard of Munros.

The feasible options really are to either keep the list of Donald hills, or change it to include the Tops in the list (a third option would be not to list Donalds, which are the least popular list already).

The Full House isn't really an issue as we don't list all the rest of the Full House either - it's not a WH thing. As far as I know noone has logged a compleation of all the hill lists on Walkhighlands, but that could be called a Walkhighlands Grand Slam or something if folk want complete a meta-list on here.

It's looking like a close-run vote at the moment, I set up the poll for 30 days so unless one side pulls far ahead we'll wait for that.

[FraserHughes]

Fair comment Paul, makes sense.

In that case my vote is for leaving it as it is so it is aligned with the other catagories which don't include tops. As you say if one wants to keep track of progress on a full house another site or list is required for the Munro Tops anyway.

[Fife Flyer]

When is this ever going to end?
The goal posts seem to be forever moving, the hills don't move or grow unless they have a stone stack (and that doesn't count) so it is about time they drew a line in the sand and let things be.
I have no plans to visit tops, am more than happy just getting out for the fresh air and exercise and setting my own goals.

[Sunset tripper]

I agree with Fife Flyer on this one.
I'm not a list ticker (well I dont think I am. Am I? )
I would find a munro tops map handy though, as it is probably one of the few times I regularly use an other site just for info on how many tops a munro has and where they are. I like the south top of Ben More Assynt and the top connected to Lurg Mhor by a narrow ridge also. Tom Dubh is a top of Braeriach and located miles from it on the vast plateau. A great location. The Ben Nevis tops are fantastic also with the SW top rarely visited.

I would say bin the donalds completely. I always thought the munro tops were the 2nd or 3rd most popular list anyway competing with the corbetts but maybe in modern times the grahams are more popular.

[Tinto63]

I always thought that the list of 89 Donalds was a little short compared to the other main hill lists, and that both the New Donalds list of 118 hills and the combined Donalds and Tops list of 140 were a more complete challenge. It is also important to acknowledge that the Donalds, originally listed in the SMC journal in 1935 was the second list of Scottish Hills (after the Munros) and was published 17 years before the Corbetts list appeared in 1952.

For what it is worth, I have recently completed my second round of Donalds. Both rounds have consisted of all Donalds and Tops listed in the revised 1984 edition of the Munro's Tables including all points listed as "not tops" combined with the New Donalds and SubDonalds listed in the second edition of The Grahams and New Donalds, compiled by Alan Dawson and published in 1999. Of course most hills are listed in both publications but it has been fun combining the two lists and discovering some good wee hills often with great views, e.g. Well Hill and The Schil.

In response to the survey, I voted 'Who Cares' as I consider it is more important for the an individual to set their own targets as all the lists are open to manipulation and interpretation by SMC.

[PeteR]

It's enough to make you burn your boots. I do get annoyed at these people with their tape measures looking to remeasure and reclassify. Now we have some billy-no-mates changing the Donald rules all of a sudden........

.......I still voted to add the tops though

[yokehead]

When is this ever going to end?
The goal posts seem to be forever moving, the hills don't move or grow unless they have a stone stack (and that doesn't count) so it is about time they drew a line in the sand and let things be.
I have no plans to visit tops, am more than happy just getting out for the fresh air and exercise and setting my own goals.

Quite. The whole hill list thing is so confusing, in fact as with other things in life is becoming a case of:

A few suggestions:
For folk newly about to embark on bagging anything, wait about 20-50 years and maybe all lists will have settled down so you'll know what you're going for and not have to revisit due to changes.

Since Corbetts already cover the higher hills on the Donalds list, and the key criteria for Donalds and Hewitts are similar, bin the Donalds list and start a new list combining Donalds and Hewitts - could be called 'Donitts' or 'Hewalds' perhaps. That would conveniently include these hills for all of the UK. If you're only interested in hills in certain countries, you could say 'I've climbed the Scottish/Welsh Donitts/Hewalds, or whatever. Paul, this would also save space in the section you have for users list tallies.

Start a completely new list drawing from all hill lists but only including the best, it could be called THE BEST. Subjective I know, but how satisfying to dump the nondescript bumps but be able to include in the one list, for example, Stac Pollaidh, The Cobbler and An Teallach. This could be prepared by country or the whole UK. A great project for walkhighlands to propose, launch and administer I think, being the best walking site on the planet, and how about that saving in space on list tallies if the rest were dumped at the same time? So compelling!

Have your own list based upon whatever criteria you choose. In fact, I am considering starting a new list called 'The Yokeheads'. It will always include all those hills I've climbed so unfortunately will be a non-static, but will always have been compleated by me.

[Robinho08]

Doubt I'll ever complete the Donalds, but I think the hill list on WH should align with the SMC tables.

[Sgurr]

Doubt I'll ever complete the Donalds, but I think the hill list on WH should align with the SMC tables.

In another 40 years you might be looking for hills you can still climb.

[Sunset tripper]

Start a completely new list drawing from all hill lists but only including the best, it could be called THE BEST. Subjective I know, but how satisfying to dump the nondescript bumps but be able to include in the one list, for example, Stac Pollaidh, The Cobbler and An Teallach.


Have your own list based upon whatever criteria you choose. In fact, I am considering starting a new list called 'The Yokeheads'.

Two great ideas from Yokehead. I propose the list is of the 100 best hills in Scotland as voted for by WH members and should be called the WH 100

Here are 4 from different categories I think should be on the list.

Munro - Ben Nevis
Corbett - Foinaven
Graham - Suilven
Sub 2000 - Mullach an Eilein (Boreray)

Ps. I doubt if any Donalds would get on the list.

[malky_c]

Ps. I doubt if any Donalds would get on the list

I dunno - Craignaw might just sneak in....

[Paul Webster]

Some good ideas here. It's tempting to scrap the Donalds and use the space for the new Walkhighlands' handpicked BoSS list - the Best of Scotland's Summits.

[Sgurr]

Ps. I doubt if any Donalds would get on the list

I dunno - Craignaw might just sneak in....

The Swatte Fell, Hart Fell , Saddle Yoke circuit might. Good in winter.

[nigheandonn]

I was wondering about Tinto - I don't think you can do a Best of Scotland without a taste of the Lowlands.

Which is the problem with a simple popular vote - it will just end up with 100 pointy hills all the same! I like variety in a list