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Multi-day winter Munro rounds

Multi-day winter Munro rounds


Postby simcc » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:16 pm

I'm currently pondering/planning a 3/4-day winter trip in the hills, probably at the start of the new year. Anyone got good suggestions on areas?
I plan to camp out or use bothies and have an excellent level of fitness (e.g. could complete a summer Mamores circuit in a long day). I’m also looking for some grade I climbs that can be relatively safely soloed, as I want to get some practice in for Mont Blanc in the summer on some steeper ground. And of course, some Munro bagging is also welcome ;).

I’m mainly asking, as it’s always good to hear first hand of nice winter rounds. In winter conditions, just looking at a map for planning can be more deceiving than in summer.
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Re: Multi-day winter Munro rounds

Postby Kevin29035 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:15 am

Hey

One thing I thought, reading your post, is to say that the grade I gullies can often be one of the most objectively dangerous parts of the mountain. Just because it's easy, doesn't mean it's safer. Accordingly there is little place to say that a Grade I solo will ever be totally safe. Because gullies are the mountains' 'rubbish chute', a mistake in assessing snow conditions could really hammer you. (as in, avalanche)

It would take a lot for me to get really enthusiastic about going soloing grade I gullies. But once the right conditions develop however, it is just great! Consistency of the snow is something probably more widely appreciated in winter climbing as opposed to winter hillwalking because the nature of the game takes you far closer to the snow structure. i.e. you actually climb it, it could fall on top of you if you're having a bad day.

So it takes time, I think, to develop an eye and a feel for the snow, and that's not best developed through walking either.

Counter intuitively, steeper or more exposed climbing can be objectively safer than the entry-level grade I gully. That's not to say it is safer overall; just that you'll be able to control the level of risk more than if you climbed the snow slope and (say..) stood underneath a collapsing cornice time-bomb.

Last winter, I went to Coire Fee for climbing, and had the option of a deep gully or an ice line up the middle of a face. We chose the ice climb. Half way up our climb, we watched (and heard!) the gully in question avalanche from top to bottom (B Gully), a full 1,000 feet. The debris shot out the base of the gully, along the coire floor for some distance and came to rest very near a couple folk, way far out in the base of the coire. We would have got annihilated in that gully, but our line was steep so that the snow hadn't built up so much as to be really dangerous.

Another scenario would be if you get to March/April time, and the Ben Nevis gullies for instance are all deep, generally stable and 'in condition'. (Not always the case of course!). In good conditions, the gullies climb 1 or 2,000 feet and the snow can be bullet-hard. So the snow stability might be excellent, but the consequence of falling might be disastrous. It may not be possible to stop once you start accelerating, so one element of safety (snow stability) gives rise to another danger. Safety in these situations come down to quality (and confident) movement.

If you are looking for easier early-season climbs and the gullies are dangerous, look to ridges or buttresses. But worth knowing maybe, that in winter the requirement to get into roped climbing might arise very quickly, and perhaps half way up a route! To that end I think it's something best explored with partners and as 'winter climbing'.

Try and get a hold of Martin Moran's 'Scotland's Winter Mountains' book - bit dated now in techniques and gear but an encyclopaedia of the Scottish winter mountain game, including the weather, terrain, ridges, gullies, buttresses and all that good stuff.

Sorry that doesn't answer your original question more! Hopefully helps somehow?

Cheers

Kevin
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Re: Multi-day winter Munro rounds

Postby motorlaunch » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:23 am

The Fannichs might be considered. There are reports from people who have traversed them all. Depending on the snow conditions some of the ascents/descents could be challenging especially with the weight you will be carrying.
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Re: Multi-day winter Munro rounds

Postby jmarkb » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:29 am

A couple of thoughts:
You probably don't want to go climbing Grade 1 gullies with a full backpacking load. If you haven't been on this sort of terrain before, then doing it in remote places on your own may not be the best way to start.
Going later in the winter (March or early April) would have a couple of big advantages - more daylight, and a higher chance of well-consolidated snow conditions.
Areas: probably somewhere that isn't too remote in case you need to get out: mybe around Glen Nevis, around Glen Shiel, Fannichs. I would avoid the Cairngorms for a first time.
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Re: Multi-day winter Munro rounds

Postby Caberfeidh » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:09 am

I'm sure anyone who climbs knows climbing is not a 'safe' sport, and if we did not accept that then we would stay at home and collect stamps - but philately gets you nowhere, geddit?!
Anyhoo, assuming you will try not to get killed, try the Cairngorms. Plenty of bothies, howffs and shelters, good walking through the glens and passes between Rothiemurchus and Braemar, excellent low-grade gullies which hold frozen snow for ages and plenty of Munros.Late January/ February/March often sees cold frosty weather with good winter conditions.
013ar.jpg
Y-Gully of Corrie an Lochan Uaine, Glen Derry. Grade II/III due to long pitches, lack of protection, steep headwall , general terror.


Lairigh Ghru #1r.jpg
Lairig Ghru sunrise


Bob Scotts Icicles#R.jpg
Bob Scott's bothy


carncrom#1r.jpg
Carn Crom, above Glen Luibeg


Scotties Katabatic blast#2R.jpg
Katabatic winds blasting frozen ground at Bob Scott's bothy


Corrie cliffs Cairn Gorm.JPG
Corrie an Lochain cliffs and gullies, Cairngorm


Autumnal pics 010.jpg
Ryvoan, Rothiemurchus forest


Ryvoan March 08.jpg
Rothiemurchus from Ryvoan


Long Axe.jpg
Dangling from a long ice axe after my feet slipped in a frozen gully


Lairig Ghru winter#3iiiiR.jpg
Lairig Ghru in winter


Shelter Stone#1.jpg
Shelter Stone at Loch A'an
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Re: Multi-day winter Munro rounds

Postby simcc » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:56 am

Kevin29035 wrote:Hey

One thing I thought, reading your post, is to say that the grade I gullies can often be one of the most objectively dangerous parts of the mountain. Just because it's easy, doesn't mean it's safer. Accordingly there is little place to say that a Grade I solo will ever be totally safe. Because gullies are the mountains' 'rubbish chute', a mistake in assessing snow conditions could really hammer you. (as in, avalanche)

It would take a lot for me to get really enthusiastic about going soloing grade I gullies. But once the right conditions develop however, it is just great! Consistency of the snow is something probably more widely appreciated in winter climbing as opposed to winter hillwalking because the nature of the game takes you far closer to the snow structure. i.e. you actually climb it, it could fall on top of you if you're having a bad day.


jmarkb wrote:A couple of thoughts:
You probably don't want to go climbing Grade 1 gullies with a full backpacking load. If you haven't been on this sort of terrain before, then doing it in remote places on your own may not be the best way to start.
Going later in the winter (March or early April) would have a couple of big advantages - more daylight, and a higher chance of well-consolidated snow conditions.
Areas: probably somewhere that isn't too remote in case you need to get out: mybe around Glen Nevis, around Glen Shiel, Fannichs. I would avoid the Cairngorms for a first time.


Hey guys, I agree with both your thoughts on this! That's also why I posed the question.
I'm not a newbie to winter stuff and have some experience, but would also not consider myself an expert either. My thoughts were indeed looking at ridges (e.g. CMD arete type stuff) and alike rather than gullies, for exactly the reasons you guys mention.
And actually, when is any mountaineering or hill walking ever completely safe!? - but it's about reasonable calculated risk, as you understand. That's also why I wouldnt generally not do grade II or above solo-ing and why I'm asking about grade I.

I did the Fannichs last year, and some of my current thoughts were indeed Glen Shiel, the grey corries or up near Ben Alder. I'm just aware that there is so much more Scotland out there that I may be missing when considering my options. :)
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Re: Multi-day winter Munro rounds

Postby weaselmaster » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:38 pm

Ben Alder gives a good outing - it was our very first multi-day trek, in perfect winter conditions and you can expand it to take in as many summits as you fancy - we did 9.

The Strathfarrar hills are good in winter, as are some of the hills around Affric/Mullardoch. And as Caberfeidh says, the Cairngorms give lots of possibilities for route planning.

Enjoy whatever you end up doing and do post a report on it when done :D
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Re: Multi-day winter Munro rounds

Postby Kevin29035 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:51 pm

simcc wrote:I'm not a newbie to winter stuff and have some experience, but would also not consider myself an expert either. My thoughts were indeed looking at ridges (e.g. CMD arete type stuff) and alike rather than gullies, for exactly the reasons you guys mention.


CMD is absolutely brilliant, I think it's also possibly easier in winter, too. (Are there many ridges like that? Maybe the Cuillin when the boulderfields get covered?) Given a build up on the crest, it gets a path stamped into it with popularity, and then it's quicker and less of the boulder picking to get around. That said - once did with a dollop of fresh powder on top of rock and that did feel weird.

simcc wrote:And actually, when is any mountaineering or hill walking ever completely safe!? - but it's about reasonable calculated risk, as you understand. That's also why I wouldnt generally not do grade II or above solo-ing and why I'm asking about grade I.


Yeah, sorry if post was too obvious :shock:
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Re: Multi-day winter Munro rounds

Postby simcc » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:02 pm

Kevin29035 wrote:
Yeah, sorry if post was too obvious :shock:


No probs, I get where you were coming from :clap:
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