Ben Vane or Benvane

[chigton]

Why is the munro Ben Vane and the corbett Benvane. Anyone know the reason behind this?

[nigheandonn]

Cartographers

[tweedledog]

Cartographers

...a conspiracy thereof.

[DopeyLoser]

Names shown on maps are based on any available sources which can be gathered. The sources often conflict, so a choice needs to be made.

For Ben Vane (Dunbartonshire)
OS Name book entry: https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/dunbartonshire-os-name-books-1860/dunbartonshire-volume-02/31

- The consensus appears to have been Ben Vane. Notes exist on the gaelic Beinn Bhàn but English orthography has been used in this case.
- Another question could be: why was English orthography used, not Gaelic? An answer could be that the local people who gave spellings used English orthography.

For Benvane (Perthshire)
The OS Name books no longer exist. From https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/perthshire-os-name-books-1859-1862: "During the Second World War some of the Perthshire OS Name Books were destroyed during an air raid on their storage site at Southampton. Among the volumes destroyed were those covering the whole extent of the county surveyed at the scale of 6 inches to the mile"

So we cannot use the Name books to get an idea of why a name was chosen. But we can look at the names that were chosen, they are on the six-inch map:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=56.2925&lon=-4.3695&layers=6&b=1

It shows both "Benvane" and "(Beinn Bhàn)". What does that suggest? Perhaps the majority of sources gave the name in English orthography while others used Gaelic orthography.

Looking at the Name books we can see that names are certainly not just the products of cartographers' fervid imaginations. If the name "Benvane" was used it would be because that's how most of the available sources spelled it.

Incidentally, these folks https://spns.org.uk/ appear to eat sleep and breathe place names and are having a conference in Arrochar in November, pretty well at the foot of Ben Vane.

[malky_c]

Also Beinn Mheadhoin:
https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/munros/beinn-mheadhoin.php

Vane is just an anglicised spelling of Mheadhoin.

[nigheandonn]

It could just as well be bhàn/fair - I mean, if the local Gaelic speakers said it was in the case of Benvane, I don't see any reason to disbelieve them

Most names have had many versions over the years, sometimes bafflingly different, but once one version gets on a map it does tend to stick.

[simon-b]

Similar questions could be asked about some hills with English names, e.g. White Side in the Lakeland Eastern Fells and Whiteside in the North Western Fells.

There are various examples of pairs of hills with names that sound like grammatical variations of each other in Gaelic, Anglicised Gaelic and English, e.g...

A' Glas-bheinn and Beinn Ghlas
Ben More and Morven
Knott and The Knott
Pike o' Stickle and Stickle Pike

...to name but a few.

[NickyRannoch]

Modern Gaelic orthography wasn't used universally across the Gàidhealtachd.

Perthshire , Aberdeenshire and Stirlingshire certainly used Scots orthography to spell their Gaelic in medieval times. I would have thought by the time the OS was being compiled the orthography would have been more like what is used now but who knows.

It would also depend on who the source of information was. Often the only literate Gael in a district might be the minister and where they were from or educated rather than where they were based at the time might colour their orthography.

What I would say is the spoken versions almost always remain consistent with what the original names were. So, Balloch at Loch Lomond is sometimes given as Baile an Loch, town on the loch which is feasible but if you listen to it with emphasis on the first vowel in Bal it is almost certainly bealach - referring to the passing of the loch into the Leven.