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WHW, wild camping, food, etc

WHW, wild camping, food, etc


Postby Zohar » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:14 pm

Hello,
I’m planning to walk the WHW in September (2019).
I have an account with OS so I created the whole route (as one route) as well as broken it down to 7 parts thereby making ~20km sections. I’ve done this, primarily, because it’s the only way they allow you to download your routes to be available on your phone even when offline.

I’m trying to compile an updated and detailed map guide, not merely for myself but also for people who may wish to follow it in the future (though I will obviously have to walk it in person first before making it public) and of course to make it free for anyone who’s interested.

To start with I must stress that my main goal is to wild camp and wild camp as much as possible.
For me, this is the main attraction when it comes to Scotland. Naturally, Scotland is very beautiful and I also just love Scottish people but being able to wild camp “freely” is the deciding factor to why I wish to trek in Scotland.
I say this because I’ve seen many videos by people who say things such as “it’s only a fiver and you get a shower and toilet so why not”.
100%. Sure. But for many of us the magic and challenge is in wild camping.

For this reason I’m trying to collect all the possible wild camping spots so I’ll be able to insert them into the maps as either marks or comments.
When referring to camping spots what I mean is:
A, leveled ground & preferably with some form of protection (trees, rocks, etc)
B, places that are far enough so you won’t disturb residents, farmers, etc.
C, ideally, places that are close to water (for filtration, etc)

I’ve tried searching the forum (as well as others) but quite often people will try to verbalise their explanation by saying things like: “after that city, on the side, there is a darker section to the wood, walk about 15m inside and there is a place”.
Suffice it to say… this is not hugely helpful. It’s something. For sure. But I doubt it’s very reliable.
So if this is what you have to offer – please don’t let me stop you. I’d still take it and add it to my list. However, I’d appreciate it a lot more if someone could provide a 6-grid-reference or a picture of a map with markings.
Things like that.

Before I continue, just to put some minds at ease… I have never made a fire in my life (because I physically feel repulsed by people who do and leave the area burnt and marked), I absolutely leave the area at LNT and I will never trash anything.

Moving on:
Another aspect to the list is places to eat (such as pubs, restaurants, etc) along the way. The point here is that there are good ones and there are great ones. There are cheap ones and costly ones.
Having this information can be useful when planning your day.

Further:
Places to stock up and buy groceries, gas canisters, etc.

And finally:
Official campsites (because sometimes you do want them), pub gardens (I actually prefer those to campsites) and/or places where you can shower and dry wet clothes, charge your battery bank, etc.

Looking forward to become part of this forum.
If you have any personal questions you want to ask before entrusting me with your precious locations and wish to do so privately the best email to use is: atmajyoti-AT-gmail-dot-com

Cheers
Z
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Re: WHW, wild camping, food, etc

Postby SummitStupid » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:50 pm

Without wanting to be a negative Norman, walking to pre-determined 6-figure grid refs provided by others isn't really in the spirit of proper wild camping. Part of the fun and challenge and stress is in finding your own. I would certainly have no trouble with anyone providing you with a list of such (I haven't done the WHW) - I think people guard these things a little too jealously - and I'll provide a link to an article you might find useful, but planning the route around "potential" campsites, and occasionally scrambling around desperately looking for a bit of dry ground to put your tent on as the Sun starts to sink below the horizon, are I think very much part of the experience. You might find it more rewarding doing it this way.

Also, you can find places that fit your criteria - close to trees and water, away from inhabited places - by looking at your map. That's how most everyone does it. It can be tricky finding a place flat and smooth enough to pitch in Scotland but rivers and lochs usually have some flattish grassyish bits, as do bealachs and corries.

Just to show I'm not bemoaning this sort of thing, here's a good spot I've stayed at which is on the WHW, a few miles past Kinlochleven, right below Stob Ban, grid ref NN136643, next to an old ruin. (An added bonus of this site is you could walk straight up and down this fantastic mountain before continuing to Fort William. Much nicer than finishing with Ben Nevis.)

Image

And here's a good report of the WHW wild camped:

https://v-g.me.uk/Trips/T0762/T0762.htm

Lastly, do share a report of your trip here!

EDIT: I really, really don't want to look like one of those snotty people who just post negative stuff in reply to posts like this. I just mean to say that by having a pre-prepared list of "wild" camp sites, you're denying yourself some of the sense of freedom and accomplishment that come with the best wild camps. And who knows, you might find an unknown spot you want to share with others!
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Re: WHW, wild camping, food, etc

Postby rgf101 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:52 pm

Without wanting to be a negative Norman, walking to pre-determined 6-figure grid refs provided by others isn't really in the spirit of proper wild camping.

I know what you're saying, but if someone wants to know where a reliable campsite can be found because they aren't very experienced, or will be arriving late or in bad weather, or will have already done 20 miles by that point... fair enough, I say. I'll happily search on here and elsewhere for spots people have camped before when I'm planning a trip - I might not use that spot, but I like knowing that I've got at least one definite option.

That said, with the amount of traffic the WHW gets, encouraging wild camping at particular spots outside of the hotel-side suggested sites might not be ideal.

I'll make a couple of suggestions though - from Tyndrum head up the path towards Cononish, from Victoria Bridge head up towards Loch Dochard. Either will take you past numerous possible sites within an hour's walking.
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Re: WHW, wild camping, food, etc

Postby Zohar » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:40 am

SummitStupid wrote: Without wanting to be a negative Norman, walking to pre-determined 6-figure grid refs provided by others isn't really in the spirit of proper wild camping. Part of the fun and challenge and stress is in finding your own. I would certainly have no trouble with anyone providing you with a list of such (I haven't done the WHW) - I think people guard these things a little too jealously - and I'll provide a link to an article you might find useful, but planning the route around "potential" campsites, and occasionally scrambling around desperately looking for a bit of dry ground to put your tent on as the Sun starts to sink below the horizon, are I think very much part of the experience. You might find it more rewarding doing it this way.

EDIT: I really, really don't want to look like one of those snotty people who just post negative stuff in reply to posts like this. I just mean to say that by having a pre-prepared list of "wild" camp sites, you're denying yourself some of the sense of freedom and accomplishment that come with the best wild camps. And who knows, you might find an unknown spot you want to share with others!


OK.
I haven’t actually checked this post since I posted it a few days ago.
I thought I’ll give it a few days for people to get involved… evidently few have.
I don’t know if that says something about this forum or whether your post tainted it with negative energy which in return made people avoid it.

Firstly - thank you for the link. I’ll check it out.

With regards to your post:
First, this post is about criteria specific wild camping spots (meaning, not general one but ones that meet certain characteristics), as well as decent places to eat. It’s not about “this is my approach to backpacking, please criticise it”.
Suffice it to say – your remarks are simply misplaced.
Further, if you wished to make them still, you could have done it privately.

I’d say you came across as negative and snotty whether you intended to or not and worst of all – you based it on misinterpreting my post and my intentions.

What the other guy said is slightly more “accurate”:

I know what you're saying, but if someone wants to know where a reliable campsite can be found because they aren't very experienced, or will be arriving late or in bad weather, or will have already done 20 miles by that point... fair enough


Having more information is hardly a “bad thing” regardless of experience. It’s a form of insurance. As he suggested.

The logic of comparing ‘lack-of-information’ to a more natural and “raw” experience is not un-true but if we are to follow that line then why stop there?
Why don’t you travel without a compass and try figuring out the path with the stars?
Why use a map at all… just make it up as you go along. I mean, if other people’s camping spots take away from the experience why should other people’s path be any different?
Why should you even bother with places to stock up at all… clearly a much more “natural” experience will be to hunt and fish for yourself.
Why carry a tent when you can build a lean-to and use fire rocks buried under a bed of grass to keep warm.

My point here that this logic is quite honestly pretty silly.

I watched videos by Paul Wilcocks and he didn’t seem to find very many pitching places throughout the route.
On the other hand I watched videos by Hounds of Howgate and he didn’t seem to have any issues finding pitching spots just about anywhere and everywhere.

From watching videos I saw that there are quite a few spots that would make the experience quite a bit better. For instance, in Paul’s videos he would often stop at a place only to discover later on that had he walked a few more minutes there was a spectacular spot with an overview of the water and mountains. That would have made the following morning even more emotional.
A spot like that, in my opinion, is good to know about and keep as a grid reference.
That there are gazillion more is not the point at all and if you re-read my initial post you’ll see that I asked for good ones… not general ones.
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Re: WHW, wild camping, food, etc

Postby Zohar » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:42 am

I'll make a couple of suggestions though - from Tyndrum head up the path towards Cononish, from Victoria Bridge head up towards Loch Dochard. Either will take you past numerous possible sites within an hour's walking.


Thank you
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Re: WHW, wild camping, food, etc

Postby SummitStupid » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:07 am

Hesitated to reply to this as your response was so very silly, but nevertheless:

You can't go getting so offended and butthurt when people take the time to reply to your requests for help, certainly not when they go out of their way to provide the very help you requested. I posted a brief, non-judgemental aside about finding your own spots, a link to a report of the WHW wild-camped, and a specific spot I have camped at before. I was friendly and made it very clear that it was just my opinion. Read into the lack of responses what you will, but I can't apologise for bringing "negative energy" to the discussion, whatever that's supposed to mean. If you're not prepared for the doubtless-upsetting scenario of encountering unsought opinions, you could just try reading guidebooks. As for chastising me for not replying privately on a public forum, then posting your graceless reply publicly, I don't think you're contributing in a positive way to the accumulated "energy".

However improbably, you did manage to find offense in what was a very polite and friendly response, so I will apologise for that. I hope you have a nice time on the Way, and may your energy always remain positive, or balanced, or whatever is good for energy.
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Re: WHW, wild camping, food, etc

Postby abbruce » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:32 am

Having done the WHW several times, I prepared the following food stop info for friends who were about to do it. These opinions are just my own experiences.

Milngavie – Drymen
Beech Tree inn, Dumgoyne – decent pub serving food & snacks. Service isn’t great at all though
Drymen – Rowardenan
When the path flattens at the top of Conic Hill, take the short path on the left to go to the top. Only a very short way up to get wonderful views down the small islands on Loch Lomond that make up the start of the Highland Boundary Fault.
Balmaha has a good pub (Oak Tree Inn) & a very good coffee shop (Mocha) a couple of doors up. Both are very good, wi-fi is better in the coffee shop.
Rowerdenan Hotel has a decent bar serving food.
Rowerdenan – Inverarnan
Inversnaid Hotel – Walkers welcome in the bar round the back. Serves soup & sandwiches, bar meals etc. Expect the bar to be full of OAP’s from a coach trip, as that’s the hotels main business.
Once you leave the shore of Loch Lomond & towards the end of your day, you’ll go up the side of a small hill. At the top, there’s a large metal gate on your left. Well worth going over/through this to get an unrestricted view right down Loch Lomond.
You’ll pass Bienglas Farm, a campsite with a small shop & bar. The Drovers is a small detour & situated on the main A82. Well worth going down as food is excellent, as is the craic.
Inverarnan to Tyndrum
Once you go through the forest & cross the main road, you go across flat farmland & reach Auchertyre Farm which has a small shop serving coffee & basic home bake type food. There are a few seats outside as well as WC’s. Only around an hour from Tyndrum.
Tyndrum has the Green Welly Shop for any supplies you need. The garage shop is well stocked also. Tyndrum Inn is a good pub selling good food, the chippy (Real Food Café) is also very good.
Tyndrum – Kingshouse
Bridge of Orchy is around 6 miles away & has a decent bar in the hotel. It is expensive though . After around another hour you’ll reach Inveroran Hotel which has a small bar selling very good soup & sandwiches. At the end of Rannoch Moor, take the short detour to Glencoe Mountain ski centre which has an excellent café.
Kingshouse – Kinlochleven
There’s nowhere to stop for food at all, but it’s a short day. When you arrive in Kinlochleven, you pass the Ice Factor which has a café. The Tailrace Inn pub is across the road, which I've found is not the most welcoming for walkers. Shame as their fish & chips is great. The McDonald Hotel at the far end of the village is excellent for food.
Kinlochleven to Ft William Again, nowhere to stop for food, but Kinlochleven has a Co-op, so buy from here before setting off. Grog & Gruel is the best pub in Ft William & only around 300 yards back from the end of the WHW. Their pizzas are brilliant.

Enjoy your trip, it's a great route
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Re: WHW, wild camping, food, etc

Postby bootsandpaddles » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:59 am

I think this thread overlaps rather a lot with the "How has hill walking changed" thread.
There seems to be a great desire now to have everything planned in advance down to exactly specified routes, camping spots and places to eat. This, I think, is detrimental in several ways.
It leads to over- crowding of routes and facilities. This does not just apply to hill walking. You have only to think of the NC500: those roads have always been there but are now overrun by tourists since the publication of guidebooks and lots of on-line publicity. There are guide books for everything now whereas as in the past there was an enjoyable element of discovery in a journey. Bothies are a case in point.
Having everything prescribed removes that element of discovery and exploration. It is, obviously, important to be prepared for whatever journey you are going to undertake but leave a bit to chance: it is much more fun.
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Re: WHW, wild camping, food, etc

Postby SummitStupid » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:01 am

Oh gods, don't start him off again... :shock:
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Re: WHW, wild camping, food, etc

Postby nick70 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:11 am

Going to give an honest reply, but hope I don't get shot down for doing so. Your comments to Summit Stupids response were somewhat harsh and unnecessary I believe.

Firstly your question is fraught with many imponderables and improbables.

Do you have Harveys West Highland Way map? I have found this by far and away the best map for this (or any) long distance walk. The map details many things over and above what you will find on your OS maps, such as eating/drinking places. shops, ATM's and also some wild camping spots and also all the official camp sites. I cannot recommend their maps highly enough. They are absolutely invaluable.

What I would say however that the wild camp sites listed are the generic, well known ones. Places such as the bridge at Bridge of Orchy, bridge past Inverornan and forest behind Kingshouse Hotel. Now while these are wild camp sites they often can have the feel of camp sites, as in that there could be numerous others at them. Are you happy to wild camp at a spot where there are numerous other walkers/campers? Or are you looking for a spot with perhaps more solitude?

Giving specific grid references can also be fraught with difficulty. I have seen numerous people on WHW just pitch/camp where they please, whatever they find. Now whilst these places seem suitable they may however only be suitable for one pitch. Now say for talking sake you were given such a grid reference but then found your way to certain spot and it was taken, this in itself could cause you some more difficulties if you were reliant on obtaining that spot. The beauty and magic of the WHW is the flexibility the route gives walkers. Plans often don't need to be rigid.

You also don't state how many miles you will be aiming for each day. This could help other readers in offering a positive response with some suitable locations.

I have also watched Paul Wilcocks and Hounds of Howgates videos. Whilst they are both excellent videos they both only show footage of them DOING WHW and not of any research they may have done for walk. My point being here that generally (and maybe both Paul and HoH) people already have a good idea of where their days walking will take them. One thing I will say for sure is do not use the map that Paul had.

You also mention about good eating places, again this is down to personal preference, and also perhaps budget. WHW is well served with many eating places, generally you will never (apart from final day) be more than (approx.) 8-10 miles from an establishment either serving food or selling it. One of the other posters has mentioned the considerable different places to eat, so I won't go over that again.

As for wild camping spots, there is a forest/wood just after Drymen (12 miles) which is suitable. There is Garadbhan forest, just before Conic Hill (17 miles). You also have Bridge of Orchy, bridge at Inverornan and Kingshouse Hotel which I mentioned earlier. Also please be aware that there is a camping restriction zone from Balmaha further up the eastern banks of Loch Lomond.

Finally I would say to you to read as many walk reports as you can. In particular read the one by LailaQuiche, she completed it recently and wild camped each night. You may find that report very helpful.

I hope that when you do come to do it you thoroughly enjoy it. It truly is a stunning walk.
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Re: WHW, wild camping, food, etc

Postby SummitStupid » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:19 am

nick70 wrote:Going to give an honest reply, but hope I don't get shot down for doing so. Your comments to Summit Stupids response were somewhat harsh and unnecessary I believe.


I've not slept since :(
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Re: WHW, wild camping, food, etc

Postby nick70 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:26 am

As an addendum.

Pub gardens. The only ones I can think of are Beech Tree Inn (7 miles) and Oak Tree Inn (Balmaha 20 miles). Other pubs may have outdoor seating but these are the only 2 I would class as gardens per se.

Drying rooms. I have only encountered the 2. One at Glencoe Ski Centre, this one I found to be useless. The other one is at Blackwater Youth Hostel & Camp Site in Kinlochleven. This is an absolutely fantastic drying room and has proved to be a godsend to me on a couple of occasions.
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Re: WHW, wild camping, food, etc

Postby rgf101 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:10 pm

There's a drying room at the McDonald hotel in Kinlochleven, and also at By the Way in Tyndrum, I believe.
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Re: WHW, wild camping, food, etc

Postby Hola » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:21 pm

Folk who wild camp have gained experience over the years
Overnighters and then building up to longer trips.. practice...
Carrying several days food and resupply as and when re shops etc.. or not.
To publicise wild camping spots for the inexperienced????!!! No... every One will be using them then.
That’s not what wild camping is about
It’s something about ‘the moment’
It’s something you learn over time
Not about ‘planning a spot..’
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Re: WHW, wild camping, food, etc

Postby Sack the Juggler » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:52 am

Hi Zohar and welcome to the forum.

I haven't been on for a week or so as I've been travelling, but I'd stand up for most posters on this site as being very positive and helpful.

But if you are happy to give feedback on others, I'm sure that you are ok having it yourself. i have found your posts to be negative, almost passive aggressive. I'll give some examples;

I’ve tried searching the forum (as well as others) but quite often people will try to verbalise their explanation by saying things like: “after that city, on the side, there is a darker section to the wood, walk about 15m inside and there is a place".

Suffice it to say… this is not hugely helpful. It’s something. For sure. But I doubt it’s very reliable.


I've always found people's attempt to verbalise where they camped as very helpful, but you chose to introduce a very negative comment about it not being helpful and you doubted the reliability of their description. Not a good introduction of yourself.

You then ask people to email you by belittling them by referring to their camping spots as "your precious locations". As I've said most people are more than willing to share their spots, without being "precious" about it.

Then when you didn't have enough responses (by your reckoning) you then proceed to attack the forum and the one member who had taken the time to respond to you with the following;

I thought I’ll give it a few days for people to get involved… evidently few have.


Maybe they have been busy, and also perhaps somewhat affronted by the negativive of your comments about how "unhelpful" others have been in the past.

I don’t know if that says something about this forum or whether your post tainted it with negative energy which in return made people avoid it.


The negativity was yours, not SummitStupids, and it continues in the above sentence "says something about this forum", which is a very negative comment about the whole forum.

I may be wrong about you, but you appear to be someone who expects others to do everything for you and you try to manipulate people into doing this by using the "negging" method of using emotional manipulation by using deliberate backhanded compliment or other negative comment to another person to undermine their confidence and increase their need of the manipulator's approval.

I'm happy to help in any way, as are most of the people on this forum, but please act like an adult when asking for help, not like a needy child.
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