Walking Highlands main page Hills to Bagging

[mvapesuk]

Today I logged in once again to the Walking Highlands site but noticed something that had been changed
In the top header section the word Hills has now been changed to Bagging.
Now for many of us regular hill walkers we know what this means and that's fine but to a newcomer it might not be clear what that means.
Also we must remember that "bagging" is not the be all and end all of exploring these beautiful hills something that was brought up recently on our latest adventures out up Beinn Bhuidhe.
On our way down we met a couple going up, we stopped and had a chat and they asked "how many have you done?"

To which my reply was " we don't really count them we just go up a hill if we fancy exploring a hill and not even fussed how tall it is" There all lovely.

Now there is nothing wrong with "bagging all the munros whether it be for personal achievement or the bragging rights to friends.
But lets not forget those that have no interest in counting numbers and just enjoy getting out there

So on that note we are off to find a hill today as the weather is glorious

Have a great day peeps and stay safe

Matt.

[CharlesT]

I too dislike this change. What was wrong with "Hills"? Everyone knew what that meant and "Bagging" also has some rather unsavoury as well as complex statistical connotations.

Bring back "Hills"I say!

[Driftwood]

I'm guessing that it's related to the appearance of "Islands" on that menu, and the article (and book) related to that.

Though, Islands are also hills in their own way, it just depends where you start ascending from. And don't all of us "bag" every hill, or start every walk, from sea level?

The hills, as we're told to remember, will always be there (if maybe a bit more eroded).

Another point to consider, should the British mainland also be a balloon on the Islands map?

[CharlesT]

Confess I overlooked the "Islands" element, but I still object to "Bagging" as a title.

[SummitStupid]

I think this change is really unimportant in the grand scheme of things, though like others I much prefered "Hills". The new title is suggestive of the notion that these are something to collect, like stamps or Hornby trains, and not some of the precious wild places left to us in Britain. Like someone else implied, any conversation involving something like "I've 'done' that one", or "we're going to 'do' that one tomorrow", has an unsavoury tang to some people. The change is a tiny, cosmetic one, but it does seem to be an unnecessary nod to those who collect summits without experiencing them.

None of this is to say that there's anything wrong with bagging, and I'm sure we're all guilty of it to some extent. I know I am. And I certainly don't mean to suggest that every, most or even a sizeable minority of baggers don't appreciate the hills they climb. I just don't think there was anything to be gained by the change, and the only difference it will make is to shift perception, however slightly, towards "more summits visited = better hillwalking experience".

Not complaining though, this is still far and away the best site anywhere for Scottish hills, no matter what the drop-down menus are called.

Edit: Though I am similarly uncomfortable with the title of the new book. Not sure islands should be viewed as something to "bag". Some of them are very small and support delicate ecosystems. The fewer people that visit them, the better. Perhaps something like "A Complete Guide To the Scottish Islands" or something might be more appropriate, and unsuggestive of the notion that we should be trying to walk on as many of them as possible.

[Paul Webster]

Also we must remember that "bagging" is not the be all and end all of exploring these beautiful hills something that was brought up recently on our latest adventures out up Beinn Bhuidhe.

I completely agree.

The main reason for the change is (as suggested above) that we were wanting to include an island map where people can record the islands they've been to (in just over a day nearly 200 hundred people have marked up their islands on their accounts). Keeping hills would be great but then it seems logical to put the island map alongside the hill list maps.

The 'hills' menu, though, has always been the way to access major lists, Munros etc. For general visitors to the site, if looking for a hillwalk or anything else without any interest in bagging or lists, it's far better to start by looking at the walks menu or clicking to browse regions. This is what the majority of visitors to Walkhighlands do. You then get a view of walking in Scotland that's nothing to do with lists. The heading could be 'lists' instead of bagging but I think that's probably less clear. People who don't know what 'bagging' is are unlikely to make much sense of 'Munros', 'Corbetts', 'Grahams' etc either IMO.

As regards not liking 'bagging' at all, I've copied my reply from another thread:

I do know quite a few people have that reaction! I think it's associated for many people with just rushing around tourism hotspots like Glenfinnan Viaduct or Eilean Donan to take selfies at them before rushing off to the next and not really taking them in. It's a bit of an unfair association, as doing a round of Munros (or indeed islands - though there's really no end to that) is actually going to take a lifetime for most people - the opposite of 'doing' Scotland in a few days.

We're trying to claim the term back from this - hence:

How do you bag an island?

Even if you are happy with your choice of island destination, the question remains: what does it take to 'bag' it? True island-bagging is S-L-O-W tourism. Most people would say you had to at least visit it, but if you simply tag the island and then leave, have you really experienced it?

What makes each island special? There is no one answer, and so there is no single way to bag an island. We think you really need to experience something of each island's unique character. If it's a small island, you might just have a day visit, or you might stay overnight; you could climb its highest hill, or circumnavigate its coastline. You could uncover its history and culture, sample the local island produce, or take part in a community event. Which island experience you choose is entirely up to you... but you need to go slow and really soak up what each island offers to be able to truly count it as 'bagged'.

[SummitStupid]

I do know quite a few people have that reaction! I think it's also associated for many with just rushing around tourism hotspots like Glenfinnan Viaduct or Eilean Donan to take selfies at them before rushing off to the next and not really taking them in. It's a bit of an unfair association, as doing a round of Munros (or indeed islands - though there's really no end to that) is actually going to take a lifetime for most people - the opposite of 'doing' Scotland in a few days.

We're trying to claim the term back from this

This is fair. I suppose the only controversy is down to what connotations the B-word has to you personally. Those of us who haven't climbed a great deal of Scottish hills might be baffled by the men (it usually is) who speak boastfully in youth hostels of how many hills they've climbed, and who don't seem to get a lot of enjoyment from being on the hills themselves, can't navigate without a GPS, don't own a tent or whatever. That's when the term becomes negative. But then, this site is full of baggers who are hugely knowledgeable about and reverential towards the hills, and I fully support the idea of reclaiming the term "bagging", that we might be unafraid to use it. After all I suspect we're all baggers, in our own way.

[Sunset tripper]

No objections from me.

I would probably have gone for Hills & Islands rather than bagging. Not sure how many casual visitors to the site know what bagging is.

WH is a fantastic site with a wealth of info - the best site of its type I've seen, covering anywhere not just Scotland so no complaints from me.

........ but I'd like to see the Munro tops in there rather than obscure lists like Hewitts, Wainwrights or Donald's.

Seriously though, these are all very minor things and I wouldn't know where to start in running a site like this. Leave it to the experts I say.

[Paul Webster]

Thanks both. To be honest, I'd prefer 'hills & islands' but at the moment it won't fit... (edit - I mean on desktop where all the menu names go side by side)

[DopeyLoser]

Paul, your site, you do what you like. But I will throw in a comment.

When you used the word lists that immediately clicked for me, because that's exactly what that menu is about. Anyone who doesn't know what it means needs only to mouse-over the word and see the menu items for Islands, Munros, etc.

Never been fond of the word 'bagging', nor the thought that I might be a 'Munro bagger', which is uncomfortably close to 'Munro basher'. Maybe I am but I'd rather not have it pointed out to me!

[rohan]

Confess I overlooked the "Islands" element, but I still object to "Bagging" as a title.

I thought I was the only one. I did make a comment on Paul's thread on the change (and he quotes his reply on this thread), Glad to know from this discussion that there are a few of us around.
Now I am away to log some of my wonderful visits to the islands round these islands.

[mrssanta]

I'm not ashamed of being a Munro Bagger. It has got us to all sorts of places we would not otherwise have gone, and given us some great adventures. Given me a reason to stay as fit as I can and we've met some lovely people in real life and online.

[rohan]

I'm not ashamed of being a Munro Bagger. It has got us to all sorts of places we would not otherwise have gone, and given us some great adventures. Given me a reason to stay as fit as I can and we've met some lovely people in real life and online.

It is not the action of climbing all the hills that are there to be climbed and marking them off in a list (I do it with all sorts of things -trig points, butterflies, hills, lighthouses-) it is the term "bagging" that I do not like as it implies that the hills are there to be taken and stuffed in a bag and in my case they would crush the 22 species of butterflies that are in there (still a way to go on them, I need a trip down south)
One of my favourite quotes comes from W.H. Murray in his book "Mountaineering in Scotland"
"We learnt that when one stands on the summit after such a climb it is not the mountain that is conquered -we have conquered self and the mountain has helped us" Although this was after a particularly hard winter climb up Observatory Ridge, I like the sentiment that it is not all about conquering and bagging

May you continue to have adventures in all sorts of different places, including the islands and continue to entertain us with your reports of those adventures here.

[HalfManHalfTitanium]

I'm not ashamed of being a Munro Bagger. It has got us to all sorts of places we would not otherwise have gone, and given us some great adventures. Given me a reason to stay as fit as I can and we've met some lovely people in real life and online.

This is a facinating debate! I'm not interested in the word "bagging" itself, but WH members' views on the word are really interesting.

In many activities, measuring one's "performance" and "achievement" seems to be a natural part of the activity.

So for example, yesterday, it was obviously a huge disappointment for Federer (both husband and wife!) to be runner-up rather than winner - even though he had played superbly - and presumably it is playing tennis he enjoys (he hardly needs the money!). In the same way, rock-climbers naturally talk about grades, and runners about their times.

There is an external standard, whether that means (a) beating someone else or (b) trying to achieve a better personal performance.

In contrast, many hill walkers are more reluctant see things in those terms. Is that because many of the people attracted to the hills enjoy what they do, without comparing it to an external standard? Hill walkers tend, in my experience, to prize freedom, independence and the experience of the moment.

If there is an element of challenge, many walkers I think tend to see it more personally. For example, after a tough day at work recently, it was wonderfully rejuvenating to get out into the country and just get to the top of a hill, even though there was thick clag and high winds. It was only Meall Buidhe in Glen Lyon, hardly Cerro Torre, but it felt great.

Not Cerro Torre

In contrast, I am not one for team sports (unless it is a pub quiz).

The best rewards of hill walking, in my experience, have little to do with measurable performance. In fact they are often unexpected - a gift. Those summit views, finding secret places in the hills, the sudden effects of light, the sense of wilderness. And in my case, being able to look forward to a decent beer at the bottom of the hill.

I may or may not get round to all the Munros, but I am glad there is a list of them, and in that sense I am a Bagger. The list helps structure my exploration of so many amazing places in Scotland.

So the Munros are significant markers on my journey. It is the journey not the result that's important.

Tim

[Marty_JG]

If we take a flask of Tetley's top the top does that make us Tea Baggers?