How has hillwalking changed?

[Moriarty]

Which means that none of those people has the capacity to chose to deviate from the "book" routes (not that books are often involved either).

Why do you say that? I find Viewranger on my phone to be a brilliant tool for dreaming up routes.

Viewranger is a platform for maps - so presumably you can read, and possess a map.

[Essan]

Demographics have definitely changed. Back in the 80s and 90s I'd say 95% of people you met in the hills and bothies were men. And women on their own or in same sex groups were almost entirely unknown.

Now, nearer a 50-50 split. And there are lots and lots of youngsters as well. This is good!

[Chris Henshall]

Dear Summit Stupid,
I'm not usually someone who spends time on interweb forums but your question caught my eye, not least because I've been walking up hills in the Lakes, Scotland and Snowdonia since the early 1970s.
The key thing to realise is that human nature doesn't change that much; I remember staying in the Pen-y-Pass Youth Hostel at New Year sometime in the late 1970s as an impressionable 15 or 16 year old and being mightily unimpressed with some dickhead who showed up with a pair of MacInnes Peck Terrordactyls shouting about his inability to climb ice if there wasn't any. Hell has always been other people and the only really significant change in the hill walking scene is that there are now more of them than there used to be.
As a result, it used to be possible to wander up to the Priest's Hole Cave on Dove Crag or to the top of Cnicht or over to Shenavall and you probably wouldn't have to cope with other people - and, if you did, it is more likely that they would have been similarly minded souls who would be used to having to work hard for the relatively intangible rewards of a beautiful view, a sense of satisfaction after a long day on the hills and cooking some dehydrated food on an awkward (and decidedly heavy) Primus stove. So, what has changed today?
1. Higher standards of living: despite rising inequality there are larger numbers of people with the cash and leisure time to get into the hills - so they are busier.
2. Easier access: partly because of footpath erosion and partly because organisations like National Park Authorities and the National Trust like to be seen to be opening their doors to the public, it is now a lot easier to climb Sour Milk Gill or Bidean nam Bian than it used to be. There are footbridges over rivers where, thirty years ago, you would have had to get your feet wet.
3. Advertising and Marketing; When I went on my first (school) camping trip to Stonethwaite in 1973, my boots, rucksack, sleeping bag, etc. came from the local Army Surplus Store. Today, any kids who (I teach) who express any interest in hill walking (and who I take on D of E trips, etc.) are subject to an endless stream of ******** trying to sell them wicking base layers and other unnecessary shite which make the whole thing cool. These kids take the bait and then clutter up the hills for everyone else.
All that said, though, it is still easy to escape the numpties if you're prepared to look at a map and arrive at your hills from less well travelled directions. If you're interested, see these two relatively recent posts which I put up on Walk Highlands:
1. https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=89827
2. https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=89817
Three days out and we didn't see a soul!
Cheers,
Chris H

[rodderss]

Do I detect a bit of hillwalking snobbery on this thread by the older generation of walkers.

I have only been hillwalking 3 years and have never come across idiots or numpties on the hills as yet neither have I come across an explosion of people, lucky if I've seen more than you can count on your fingers on most walks , given most of my walking is in norther Scotland away from the population centres.

Have also never seen a paper map or compass in that time being used, plenty digital equipment though.

I also really can't get my head round why paths are such a bad thing or having the lightweight clothes and footwear that's on offer nowadays is to be seen as a negative.

Is it a case of we should all never use walk highlands for routes and information about the hills we would like to walk , think that's progress not a negative.

Think it's a case of nostalgia making things seem better.The only thing better about 30-50 years ago is we were younger and seemingly more tolerant of other people who dare have the audacity to walk in the hills.

[Sgurr]

I climbed Bein Mhanach (solo) in 1997 and met a woman younger than me on the summit who said "Yippee, now I can tell my Mum I'm not the ONLY female solo hill walker!" Her Mum had told her she was putting herself in danger in more ways than one, and generally given her a hard time. I assured her that this was my 30th or so solitary hill and nobody had attacked me or even been nasty to me, and I hadn't fallen off anything. She galloped off faster than me , presumably to get the good news to her Mum as soon as possible. Yes, things HAVE changed.....and for the better.


PS And the gear has become more technical

[SummitStupid]

Do I detect a bit of hillwalking snobbery on this thread by the older generation of walkers.

I have only been hillwalking 3 years and have never come across idiots or numpties on the hills as yet neither have I come across an explosion of people, lucky if I've seen more than you can count on your fingers on most walks , given most of my walking is in norther Scotland away from the population centres.

Have also never seen a paper map or compass in that time being used, plenty digital equipment though.

I also really can't get my head round why paths are such a bad thing or having the lightweight clothes and footwear that's on offer nowadays is to be seen as a negative.

Is it a case of we should all never use walk highlands for routes and information about the hills we would like to walk , think that's progress not a negative.

Think it's a case of nostalgia making things seem better.The only thing better about 30-50 years ago is we were younger and seemingly more tolerant of other people who dare have the audacity to walk in the hills.

I don't think anyone is suggesting people should stay away from the hills. And I don't think anyone was targeting you personally...

As for paths, this is a matter of opinion but a) paths are often pretty hideously made, leaving scars across hills. A sensitively-made path is nicer than a broad gravel highway stretching across a moor. b) They can spoil the sense of wilderness or escape that many people seek in the hills. Being able to look out from a top and see no trace of anything manmade is precious - a path can interfere with this escapism. c) A path can turn a rarely-climbed hill into a must-do route and see it become filled with people. This isn't the same as saying people shouldn't be on the hill, but it is natural to want fewer people around when you're out walking. Solitude is one of the reasons we go. Paths aren't always necessary as a means to go for a walk.

[Skyelines]

Maybe there's a difference in the "why" we took up hillwalking back in the '60s.
As a child of the '50s the people I heard about were Earnest Shackleton, Eric Shipton, Edmund Hilary and Sherpa Tensing and saw a film about Vivien Fuchs British Commonwealth Trans Antarctic Expedition. When I went to university the Principal of it was Dr Charles Evans who had been on expeditions with Shipton and had been on the 1953 Everest expedition. These had been explorers facing tough conditions going places and doing things that people had not done before. That sort of thing fills a child with dreams and inspires a young man.
The likelihood of doing something similar was remote but we could find something to give us a little of that type of experience, something that Dr Charles Evans encouraged all new students to do.
An unknown trackless hill tackled with basic equipment and totally reliant on oneself was the nearest we could come. Being wet cold and uncomfortable carrying a heavy pack that got heavier as it got wetter was all part of the experience which helped us realise how great the achievements of our heroes were.
With todays gear going up a well made track with a pocket full of digital technology seems more like a walk in the park. I don't need to know where I am when the mist comes in, I can still follow the path and look at my technology to tell how much further I have to go and exactly where I am. Back then we had to know exactly where we were when the mist arrived. We had to rely on our skill with map and compass to get us to our destination no help from the "eye in the sky". On a trackless moor after the mist came down we didn't know exactly where were again until we arrived safely at our destination.
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with paths, technology and the modern gear, it's just a very different experience.

[Marty_JG]

It's always going to have to be a balancing act, and the more non-traditional walkers, families, older people, mean some amount more of easier paths. And that means a change away from the pretendable-wilds, and I do get the lament for that. But even heavily-used areas can have more interesting alternatives, so Ben Lomond has the Ptarmigan option for example, a route most people up there will never use.

Yesterday I was at the Cobbler. Thanks to the advice of the Webster route I did the "south ascent" of Beinn Narnian and saw very few all day, noticed a camper (a wild camper!) between Cruach nam Miseag and Creag an Fhithich, and half a dozen sporadically-spaced groups, with a welcome quick hello/chat to a couple of them, including a heroic old goat who'd parked in Inveruglas and who'd already done Vane then Ime, but otherwise it was me & a muddy puppy for hours on end which isn't half bad at all, for the area, on a clear Saturday in July. The valley path (which I took for the quick return) was teeming but they all seemed happy enough.

[madprof]

Hill food has changed a bit: Mars bars and Kendal Mint Cake were favourites then: trail mix didn’t exist and muesli bars were a new invention!

Shudder. Kendal Mint Cake - something that shouldn't never be taken on a walk unless you're doing some strange measured sugar intake experiment.

[Marty_JG]

PS, I'm a bit surprised at the notion trail mix didn't exist years ago. It goes back - at least - to Horace Kephart's The Book of Camping and Woodcraft (1916). It was well-known (in various names, acronyms and backronyms) throughout the 60s and 70s in different parts of the western world as shown by different articles, books, and dictionaries; for example, the American term for trail mix (gorp) entered the Oxford Dictionary in 1972, though US outdoors literature of 1962 shows it was well-established.

Perhaps it wasn't a very British thing though? I don't know about that...

[al78]

I also really can't get my head round why paths are such a bad thing ..

They are not always a bad thing if constructed with respect for the landscape around them, but some of them leave hideous scars on the hillside, which detracts from the beauty, the very thing people are going to appreciate.

They also encourage people to take the same route up a hill, which can cause significant erosion (making the path look even worse). If you want to minimise damage to a hill, take the paths out and let people find their own way up, spread the load.

There is the third reason that they can encourage inexperienced people onto hills that they really are not up to. If there is a path up the hill, it must be easy, right?

[Lightfoot2017]

I did my first few hills in the mid 1980s. I've never really been into expensive state of the art gear (even now) so can't really comment on the differences. Besides, others have done that amply already in this thread.

A couple of things come to mind though:

Firstly the massive commercialisation of hillwalking and the outdoors generally. It used to be that you'd struggle to find a shop which sold hill walking gear anywhere (Milletts anyone?); now just about every high street has a Trespass or a Mountain Warehouse. The availability of clothes and equipment is everywhere. Then of course there's online availability. Two clicks and that's you ordered your £250 Scarpa boots.

The second major difference for me is information. I remember when just about the only way to learn about a walk or a route was to sit with someone who'd done it before you, and have them talk you through what they did. I recall more than one occasion going round to a pals flat, laying the maps out on the floor and him talking me through routes, obstacles and hazards to avoid. With the interweb netron thingy those days are more or less gone.

Of course, I (like many others I'm sure) still DO plan our walks on actual maps, the availability of information online has revolutionised access to the outdoors. And made it easier for anyone to have a go.

[EllyM]

Hostels have gone in many areas e.g. north of Glasgow no more Inverbeg, Ardgartan, Loch Ard, Loch Venachar, Balquhidder, Killin, let alone Fintry, Glendevon. Stayed at some of those. Wish I'd stayed at more. Of course the idea was that you could walk from one hostel to the other. Nowadays car ownership has increased hugely so people drive out of the city to the hill then back on the same day.

The demise of hostels is sad, particularly to those like me who don't drive, and for whom getting to some of the more remote places in Scotland is a real problem. I suppose this is mitigated somewhat by what I imagine is improved public transport.

This is the thing that I think is the biggest change for the worse. I have a massive thing for books about Mountain Rescue, and the old hostels mentioned (e.g. Glen Doll) would be a massive boon. Even from Aberdeen you're looking at nearly 2 hours drive into most of these places, and being able to pop up on the Friday after work and stay the weekend would help so much. I know there's still hostels around, but they are increasingly in towns and cities, and so not much use for walking (though I highly recommend Torridon SYHA, which is rather old school - my mates were horrified to discover you're not allowed in during the day!)

I would actually argue that public transport has got worse - again, some of the bus routes mentioned in books about the early days of mass hill walking have vanished - there's no bus service into most of the Angus glens, for instance, and small villages (at least on the East of the country) are very poorly served by public transport these days.

From my perspective, I'm 30, but was taught navigation and walking by my Dad as a kid, I see a huge amount of (worrying) reliance on digital technology. I do find it useful, but I also know how to navigate myself off a hill in zero visibility if need be.

Final thing I'd point out - hitchhiking is going the way of the dodo - I know my dad was highly reliant on it as a method of transport in the 1970s. I've been a passenger a couple of times lately when we've stopped to squeeze in hitchhikers, and they all say they've been passed by dozens of massive, largely empty, cars, but it was the ford fiesta already carrying 4 walkers that stopped for them.

[Moriarty]

I remember when just about the only way to learn about a walk or a route was to sit with someone who'd done it before you, and have them talk you through what they did. I recall more than one occasion going round to a pals flat, laying the maps out on the floor and him talking me through routes, obstacles and hazards to avoid. With the interweb netron thingy those days are more or less gone.

Interesting - I just checked my SMC Munro and Corbett books to find that the Munros was published first in 1985 and the Corbetts in 1990 (although the District Guides long predate that).

I would have guessed those publications to have been older than that.

[Sunset tripper]

Final thing I'd point out - hitchhiking is going the way of the dodo - I know my dad was highly reliant on it as a method of transport in the 1970s. I've been a passenger a couple of times lately when we've stopped to squeeze in hitchhikers, and they all say they've been passed by dozens of massive, largely empty, cars, but it was the ford fiesta already carrying 4 walkers that stopped for them.

Hitchhiking is definitely not so popular. I think it's just a sign of the times. The highlands will still be the easiest place in the UK to get a lift. Many people moved from elsewhere to the highlands and for a lot of them picking up a stranger would be unthinkable, also many younger folk have been brought up not to accept lifts from strangers. Another view which has become more widespread in the highlands is no one should get anything for nothing.
There are some places where hitching is still acceptable and lifts are fairly frequent, like the Glen Nevis road from Fort William.
I stopped for an Italian guy on the A9 slip road at Dalwhinnie earlier this year in poor conditions and he was freezing. The bus didn't stop for him and he had a long wait for the next one. He had been there for a good while waiting for a lift in sleet and rain and it was an easy place to stop but people seem to be uneasy stopping for someone or maybe they are just scared.
Unfortunately like you say it is a practice that is going the way of the dodo.