Lochnager Help - Complete novice!

[shavy65]

Hi guys, looking for a bit of advice here.

First up I`d like to quickly give you a bit of background. Myself and my 64 year old Dad have only recently discovered the mystique of hill walking, we`ve only ever done Ben Nevis, which was at end of May this year. We`d really like to do more and like the look of Lochnager, and in particular the White Mounth Munros walk. The question is....are we capable!?

We summit-ted Ben Nevis and returned to our car park (completely soaked to the skin) in 6 hours 15 mins. The weather was unfavorable, constant rain, medium winds and very poor visibility....and my Dad needed regular pit stops. He felt as if that was as hard a walk as he was capable of.

Would any of you more experienced guys say the White Mounth Munro walk (5 munros I believe) is a lot harder than Ben?
By the looks of the guides on here it looks as if we could head up Lochnager and proceed onto Carn a' Choire Bhoidheach. At this point, I was thinking, we could assess how my partner was feeling and decide whether to soldier on to Carn an t-Sagairt Mor OR head back and potentially take the alternative route back to the car park via Loch Muir, does this seem feasible?

My other question was, if we made it to Carn an t-Sagairt Mor would the easier route back to the car park be 1) back the way we came OR 2) via the further 2 Munros (Cairn Bannoch & Broad Cairn) and on past Loch Muir?

Thanks in advance for any replies, much appreciated!

Davey

[CraigReid]

I personally found Lochangar five harder than Ben Nevis, it is not far under double the length and going by my GPS data it is about 150-200m more ascent over the full day. It is a long and streneous day and the walk back to the car park from the fifth munro is 6 miles which takes a long time. It's an entirely manageable day but definetly harder than The Ben. The main difference is the Ben was a constant uphill climb whilst these hill are pretty rounded after Lochangar, plenty of time to catch your breath between hills.

Once you are ontop of Lochangar you will have done roughly 900m ascent, the four other munros are pretty rounded but still require another 500-600m ascent between the four.

In regards to going down an alternative path you will need to stick to the main path as it is stalking season.. " The circuit of the five Munros above Loch Muick is also always OK, as long as you don't come down early either across the White Mounth or into the Dubh Loch area. The path to Lochnagar from the north through the Ballochbuie is also always OK - when stalking is taking place in this area walkers are asked to keep to the paths as the area around Sandy Lochan and Coire Lochan nan Eun is very important for stalking. "

So you won't be able to take the path straight from Lochangar to Loch Muick unless you're going on Sunday. Took me personally 3 hours to get to Carn an t-Sagairt Mor and it took 7 hours to complete the full round, so it would be shorter going back on yourself back over Lochangar but not by much.

Good luck anyway

[Scottk]

Pretty sure the path from Lochnagar down to Loch Muick at Glas-allt Shiel is always ok. Great walk but definitely a big step up from Ben Nevis. Good path most of the way round.
Once you go past Lochnagar you are pretty much committed especially if you can’t drop into Dubh Loch and the weather can change very quickly.
£4 for the car park but there are toilets and a ranger station with a shop.
For your 2nd question, it is easier to go onwards as there a couple of climbs going back the way.
If you are feeling tired, you can bypass the summit of carn an t-saigart mor by sticking to the path or ditch the packs there and nip up to the summit without them.

[davekeiller]

at 30km (20 miles) it's a long walk!
I'd do the Lochnagar from Glen Muick route and work up to the White Mounth.

[simon-b]

Hi shavy. Also bear in mind that the White Mounth Munros, particularly after Lochnagar, would be more challenging to navigate than the Ben. Particularly if you got unfavourable conditions again.

[Scraggygoat]

It's not an unreasonable itinerary given your time up and down the Ben. Once up the walking is relatively easy and undulating and a lot of the extra distance isnt accompanied by any significant height gain. Underfoot it's easier on the knees and ankles than the Ben. While it is twenty miles it always seams less to me at least. If you need to cut short getting down to the Dubh Loch is hard work underfoot. Better would be to either call it a day from Lochnagar summit, or bypass the sagairts and then carry on over Carn Bannoch. It will be far harder navigation wise in cloud than the Ben in Summer, so pick a clear cool and calm day, plus start early, to give your selves time for stops and less pressure. If your dad can crank out 25 miles locally, given he still has a bit of power in his legs for ups as demonstrated on the Ben, it would possible. If on the day you feel off form in the car park either do Lochnagar or relocate and take in some of the Glen Shee hills. Try and get some navigation practice in before hand, and given you new to the hills don't try it if there's the chance of the cloud to come down.

[Bridge]

Hi
I am 65 and my husband is 67. We are seriously slow! Unfortunately we discovered hill walking far too late in life. As my husband keeps a spreadsheet with our timings, I thought this might be of use to you.
We climbed Ben Nevis, our first Munro, in 2009. It took us 8 hours there and back.
Having got the bug we returned to the Scottish Highlands in 2010, a little bit fitter and had a wonderful week of hill walking.
One of the trips we did was the Lochnager 5. This was a wonderful day with views all round, so navigation was fairly easy. This would not be the case if the weather was bad. The trip took a total of 11 hours as follows:

Lock Muick Car Park and ready to go 8:15
Top of Lochnager 11: 30
Top of Carn a' Choire Boidheach 12:40
Top of Carn an t-Sagairt Mor 13:40
Top of Cairn Bannoch 14:45
Top of Broad Cairn 15:30
Back at the car park 19:10

I was completely shattered at the end of this walk.
I realise that you would probably do this walk much quicker than us, but I hope this is helpful as a comparison.

Bridge(t)

[rockhopper]

Difficult to say as only you know yourself but the ascent is relatively low but with a longer than average distance. Even adding in the corbett, Conachcraig, the ascent is still only about 1,600m , ie about 200m more than Ben Nevis by the mountain path. The distance though is about 29km compared to Ben Nevis at about 17km.
Don't know if any use but link below to report in caes it helps. It does illustrate simon-b's point re weather.
https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13062
Hope you get a better day than I did if you do decide on it.

[tony.cee]

The white mounth munros are not to be taken lightly. A mammoth day that tests pretty much everyone who under takes the route. I would stick with lochnagar on it’s own first.

[shavy65]

Brilliant, thanks for the info. Very helpful. Maybe these 5 Munros are slightly ambitious for us....
Definitely going to do a bit more research on it though before deciding, we both like the pictures of the views etc....not ready to give up on it yet!

Appreciate all the warnings re: navigating in unfavorable conditions, much appreciated. And especially thanks for the photos to illustrate this!

We`re from extreme NE Scotland, Fraserburgh area, would you guys have any other recommendations for us which would be close enough for us to do in a day? any with similar stunning scenery would be ideal!

Again, thanks for all the extremely helpful replies, they really are appreciated

[abbruce]

Like others have said Davey, doing all 5 is a big old day. You might be better to do them in smaller chunks & leave the full round for another time.

I visit these hills regularly & usually do either :
Lochnagar (& sometimes Carn a Choire Bhroidheach) from Glen Muick
Broad Cairn via Dhub Loch from Glen Muick, or
Carn an t-Sagairt & Cairn Bannoch from Glen Callater

I'll likely be up there in the near future, so feel free to send me a PM when you're planning on going & if I'm free I'd be happy to join you & your dad if you want some company.

Bruce

[jmarkb]

We`re from extreme NE Scotland, Fraserburgh area, would you guys have any other recommendations for us which would be close enough for us to do in a day? any with similar stunning scenery would be ideal!

The northern Cairngorms would be an obvious choice, possibly a slightly longer drive from Fraserburgh:
https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/cairngorms/macdui-cairngorm.shtml
https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/cairngorms/bynackmore.shtml
https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/cairngorms/sgor-gaoith.shtml

[rodderss]

You live just up the coast from me.so long drives no matter where you go.


Sgor gaoith is a short and relatively easy walk with stunning views from summit.

Bynack mor is 15 miles but not a tough 15 , lovely walk, maybe try that and see how you get on before tackling the white Mounth 5 .

Ben Wyvis another shorter one .havent got round to it .was supposed to go up it on Sunday but my wife wanted to do Ben Nevis so that's what we did.Very hot and mobbed.

Creag Meagaidh circuit is a cracking walk with beautiful views.

Cairngorm and Ben Macdui via Loch Avon is a good walk around 13 miles

Hills around glenshee are good practice hills but not very spectacular with exception of Loch callater which is beautiful.

Mayer and dreish are also very worthwhile.

The Corbetts Morven and Ben Rinnes are good short walks

I haven't really been to other areas yet, just building up the experience and confidence in the closer places.

[shavy65]

Hi all, again - thanks very much for the extremely useful and much appreciated replies! Invaluable info from you experienced guys that have been there and done that, so cheers!

Rough plan thus far is to go for whichever we decide next Friday, 13th.....ironically ominous

Although my Dad is still keen for the 5 peaks I fear his ambition may be exceeding his ability. With this in mind I`m now contemplating either Lochnager on it`s own (returning on alternative route via waterfalls and lake Muick) or possibly Mount Keen, which appears to be very much easier albeit less spectacular, possibly a fair trade considering the circumstances.

Either way, I`m very much looking forward to `bagging` either!

Cheers again guys.