Ben Narnain van The Cobbler?

[sc00ba87]

Good afternoon all, hope you all had a good weekend!!

So, despite various warning not to hit the hills due to the conditions, I climbed the snow covered Cobbler 2 weeks ago. A beautiful walk, made all the more fun by the snow and ice underfoot. We hit both the central and northern peaks by walking straight up the Corrie face, which I would highly recommend in the snow, fantastic experience and great fun.

We managed to get up with just a solitary walking pole each, crampons were no required on the day we climbed, I even managed to thread the eye of the needle and hit the “true summit” despite the conditions (maybe wouldn’t recommend this in snow and ice, but I enjoy a good adrenaline rush).

A couple more people have asked to come climbing this weekend, which I have Ben Narnain salted in for, I was wondering if it is feasible to hook round onto the path up Ben Narnain from The Cobblers northern edge? I have been led to believe that there is an alternative route up The Cobbler by going round and up a lesser incline behind the North Peak, am I correct in thinking the path diverts towards Ben Narnain also from here, or is there a site that has detailed walking routes up these hills?

Apologies if these are very basic questions and/or basic info but as previously stated I am very new to this hillwalking lark. If you are going to comment to discourage my climb then please refrain from commenting as it seemed to be the order of the day last time and despite the warnings and discouragement I had a very good day with no trouble, so I view the majority of these as mere scaremongering anyways.

Have yourselves a lovely day, folks.

[Paul Webster]

I am very new to this hillwalking lark. If you are going to comment to discourage my climb then please refrain from commenting as it seemed to be the order of the day last time and despite the warnings and discouragement I had a very good day

Sorry, but you can't really ask for feedback on your plans, but also say you don't want any feedback you find discouraging. If you are telling people what advice you are willing to receive, you aren't really asking for feedback or advice at all.

If you make a post on the forum, other users can comment on it in line with our moderation policy, providing a response or advice as long as they do so with respect. You must also afford them respect in turn, even if you disagree.

[jmarkb]

I'm glad you had a good day out on the Cobbler: you were fortunate that conditions turned out to be so benign.

A couple more people have asked to come climbing this weekend, which I have Ben Narnain salted in for, I was wondering if it is feasible to hook round onto the path up Ben Narnain from The Cobblers northern edge? I have been led to believe that there is an alternative route up The Cobbler by going round and up a lesser incline behind the North Peak, am I correct in thinking the path diverts towards Ben Narnain also from here, or is there a site that has detailed walking routes up these hills?

The answer to this question is completely obvious by inspecting a map. If you are lacking a map, look the GPS planner on this site. If you are lacking the skills to read one, then the warnings from me and others were entirely justified.

[malky_c]

You can certainly link these hills up - many do. I'd suggest looking at the relevant Ordnance Survey map and some of forum user the trip reports on these hills for more detailed info - just look under one of the summits:
https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/munros/beinn-narnain.php

For example, here are a couple which cover approximately the route you suggest. There are probably plenty more:
https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=87699
https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39397

In terms of conditions, very few people are going to tell you that you can definitely do something at this time of year. No-one knows what your ability level is and you have said yourself that you are inexperienced. If you were up there on the weekend of 16/17 November, then there was some well compacted snow around in many of the busier areas (such as the Cobbler). I have no idea whether I would have attempted the main summit, but many people wouldn't, and if there had been any more ice than there was, you would probably have found it a lot harder. So based on the information available, no-one is going to say 'yep, it'll be fine'. All people can do is point out the hazards and leave you to go and investigate yourself, hoping that you will back off if you end up on something awkward. Conditions are so changeable at this time of year that someone's report of what it was like 2 days ago don't really help that much, and you really just need to go and see for yourself.

[sc00ba87]

Hi Paul, firstly many thanks for supplying and moderating such a fantasticly useful site. I am certainly glad I happened across it. Also, thank you for your reply, although it has left me somewhat flummoxed.

I merely asked if anybody could confirm if there was a path leading from the Cobblers northern side I could follow onto Ben Narnain, I wasn’t particularly looking for any sort of feedback, just some confirmation or, even better, somewhere with a detailed map of the walking routes for these hills.

I politely requested that if any commenter was going to try and discourage me from my climb, then to please not. By all accounts I am very inexperienced, I am making my best efforts to do some due diligence before the day of the climb so as to be best prepared but it seems that there is a lot of condescension (see jmarkb’s response below, for example) when asking for advice from the more experienced walkers. The very reason I didn’t bother with doing a walk report for my climb 2 weeks ago.

Anyways, thanks again for the plethora of information you make available on the site.

[sc00ba87]

You can certainly link these hills up - many do. I'd suggest looking at the relevant Ordnance Survey map and some of forum user the trip reports on these hills for more detailed info - just look under one of the summits:
https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/munros/beinn-narnain.php

For example, here are a couple which cover approximately the route you suggest. There are probably plenty more:
https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=87699
https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39397

In terms of conditions, very few people are going to tell you that you can definitely do something at this time of year. No-one knows what your ability level is and you have said yourself that you are inexperienced. If you were up there on the weekend of 16/17 November, then there was some well compacted snow around in many of the busier areas (such as the Cobbler). I have no idea whether I would have attempted the main summit, but many people wouldn't, and if there had been any more ice than there was, you would probably have found it a lot harder. So based on the information available, no-one is going to say 'yep, it'll be fine'. All people can do is point out the hazards and leave you to go and investigate yourself, hoping that you will back off if you end up on something awkward. Conditions are so changeable at this time of year that someone's report of what it was like 2 days ago don't really help that much, and you really just need to go and see for yourself.

Hi Malky, thanks for your response. I will most certainly check these links out, thanks very much for them. Sounds like that’s exactly what I was looking for.

In regards to the changeable conditions, yeah, I totally agree. Again, I wasn’t really looking for anyone to say “yeah, it’ll be fine” or “no, don’t do it”, I literally only asked if anyone could confirm if there was a path to Narnain or, better, a detailed map that I could use to plan a route myself. I’m very much in agreeance, that the best thing to do is just get out there and see what the conditions are like when you get there and make an informed decision at that point hence politely requesting that people don’t post to discourage my climb. In my humble opinion, the only way to obtain experience is to go and do it.

Thanks again for the response and the links, I will be sure to look over them tonight and let you know how I get on. Regards.

[jamiecopeland]

Hi Paul, firstly many thanks for supplying and moderating such a fantasticly useful site. I am certainly glad I happened across it. Also, thank you for your reply, although it has left me somewhat flummoxed.

I merely asked if anybody could confirm if there was a path leading from the Cobblers northern side I could follow onto Ben Narnain, I wasn’t particularly looking for any sort of feedback, just some confirmation or, even better, somewhere with a detailed map of the walking routes for these hills.

I politely requested that if any commenter was going to try and discourage me from my climb, then to please not. By all accounts I am very inexperienced, I am making my best efforts to do some due diligence before the day of the climb so as to be best prepared but it seems that there is a lot of condescension (see jmarkb’s response below, for example) when asking for advice from the more experienced walkers. The very reason I didn’t bother with doing a walk report for my climb 2 weeks ago.

Anyways, thanks again for the plethora of information you make available on the site.

It’s precisely this sort of gung-ho attitude that results in people getting lost/injured/killed on the mountains.

Those who kindly replied to your original post with sound advice (or condisention, as you see it) which they gained through years of experience were merely trying to help you to stay safe for not only your own sake, but that of the poor mountain rescue lads and lassies who would potentially have to come to your rescue.

I personally would always put safety before bravado.

[sc00ba87]

Hi Jamie, thanks for your reply. I’m not too sure which gung-ho attitude you’re referring too?

I have literally asked if there is a path leading from the Northern summit of The Cobbler to Ben Narnain or, better yet, a map with detailed views of the paths used to climb said hills. I have been operating under the idea that to obtain as much information as possible (asking about climbing equipment, asking if there is infact a distinguished path for where I want to walk, requesting a reliable site where I can find detailed views of these paths if available to plan a route in advance etc) was due diligence and being responsible. All of this information is left with people at home as well as taken with us on the hike.

I am flabbergasted that asking for information before going on a potentially dangerous expedition is considered “gung-ho”. At no point have I said I wouldn’t turn back if things got hairy, quite the opposite.

[DavidShepherd]

Sounds like a good walk you had to be fair.
Can't give you much advise on routes, only to have a look at the relevant maps and see what you can see for yourself. I quite like just shooting on my own of the paths when I'm out solo. For me, just making sure you have the right gear for navigation and winter conditions trumps advice on occasion. If you're all sorted for that, you'll get the experience you need before long. I certainly am not as experienced as some on here, but have learned a lot on my own and on some training courses (though i learned to read maps in the army!).

Also, welcome to the world of internet comment sections!

[sc00ba87]

Sounds like a good walk you had to be fair.
Can't give you much advise on routes, only to have a look at the relevant maps and see what you can see for yourself. I quite like just shooting on my own of the paths when I'm out solo. For me, just making sure you have the right gear for navigation and winter conditions trumps advice on occasion. If you're all sorted for that, you'll get the experience you need before long. I certainly am not as experienced as some on here, but have learned a lot on my own and on some training courses (though i learned to read maps in the army!).

Also, welcome to the world of internet comment sections!

Hi David, thanks for your response. Yeah mate, we had a fantastic time. Very scenic, as I say I felt the snow underfoot on the incline was particularly fun. First snowball fight I’ve had at over 800 metres, hopefully not the last haha.

Yeah, I think I’m pretty well prepared thus far at least. Think I need to get better quality thermals for when the real winter comes in and proper boot socks but other than that I think most bases are covered. I can read a map no problem, it’s just finding a map with the correct information I seem to struggle with, although I will have a look around the OS maps on here in just a short time.

I think I’ll likely be the same as yourself and just need to gain experience as I go. Going to climb Ben Narnain via The Cobbler (a friend seen some photos of the climb 2 weeks ago and wants to join climb it, so may as well go for two) on Saturday morning, then my last climb for the year will be Ben Lomond via the Ptarmigan Ridge in a fortnights time.

Maybe see you on top of one at some point or another..... If I can successfully navigate these comment sections until then.

[walkingpoles]

If you ask a question here, you have to live with the answers. Calling the people who in your view gave discouraging remarks scaremongers is wrong.

"Experienced" is a better word. In 2 years, when you'll have built up some experience and start answering such kinds of questions on this forum, you'll probably sound similarly. Independently of whether you started taking axes and crampons or learnt to deal without them.

As for your next endeavour, I didn't understand whether you want to climb the Cobbler and Narnain or only Narnain via the path that later splits and takes you to the Cobbler. In both cases, the walk pages and the walk reports will answer most questions. I don't know how big your party will be and how experienced and fit the people are. Do you know the latter or will you find out on the day? Attempting 1 summit is probably more than enough. My advise is to turn back early enough, if conditions get tricky and people start to slow down (they will never be able to speed up to catch up with a schedule). And the bigger the group, the slowlier you'll probably be. You're responsable for the others. And about 15 people die each year in the Highlands. Leading others up a mountain is rewarding but not to be taken lightly.

Enjoy!

[Marty_JG]

I won't speak for conditions, plenty of people have already, but in terms of routes - bearing my experience was non-winter:

there is a made path from the south (the WH route)
there is a made path from the north heading to Ime
it's perfectly possible to off-path climb up/down east and west

Again, non-winter conditions.

[jmarkb]

it seems that there is a lot of condescension (see jmarkb’s response below, for example) when asking for advice from the more experienced walkers.

My apologies: my reply was indeed rather flippant. I took a good deal of time to reply to your previous enquiries and I reacted in an unhelpful way to your scaremongering comment: sorry. I'm not trying to put you down, and I'm sure no one else on here is either. I think maybe the reason that you feel that way is that your posts contain a number of warning signs that your experience and skills perhaps don't quite match your ambitions at this stage, and I am (as I'm sure others are) genuinely concerned for your safety and that of the people who are trusting you to take them out on the hills.

I am flabbergasted that asking for information before going on a potentially dangerous expedition is considered “gung-ho”.

I think the issue is that some of the questions you are asking and statements you are making are evidencing your inexperience to a degree that worries some of us. Let me try to explain with a couple of examples:

I have literally asked if there is a path leading from the Northern summit of The Cobbler to Ben Narnain or, better yet, a map with detailed views of the paths used to climb said hills.

Well, to be fair, your original post made no mention of maps. I made the assumption, perhaps incorrectly, that having been out on the hills in question, that you would already have access to a map of the area. But it appears that you don't, which is a bit concerning.

At no point have I said I wouldn’t turn back if things got hairy, quite the opposite.

Of course, turning back can be a very good decision, but this strategy isn't sufficient to keep you out of trouble: things can "get hairy" when you are on the summit, or on your way down, and you need to be prepared for this eventuality too. Even on the way up, you can't always easily retrace your steps in winter conditions: paths get buried and it's surprisingly hard to follow a set of footsteps in really poor visibility and/or drifting snow conditions. Or "things can get hairy" only when you discover that going downhill on icy terrain without crampons is much harder than going up.

In the balance of probabilities, the chances are that you will get away with your adventures, and hopefully gain enough experience on the way. However, the consequences of screwing up are very serious - please don't take it lightly, please listen to the advice you are getting, and don't interpret it as grumpy old gits trying to prove they know better than you. It's up to you: you can treat this forum as a great resource to help you in your journey to become an accomplished winter mountaineer. But if you are dismissive of well-intentioned advice, it's only natural that some folk make take exception and feel less willing to help you out in the future.

[jmarkb]

And to answer your question:

Yes, if you follow the path between the Cobbler and Narnain there is a branch going left up the back of the North peak of the Cobbler. If you continue towards Ben Ime then there is a branch going right up to Narnain. This is the most straightforward approach to Narnain in winter: the SE ridge has a steep section towards the top. Take care if descending in poor visibility: a common error is to miss the main path and end up at the main road in Glen Croe by mistake.

[Gareth Harper]

Some handy links for you.

Mountain weather forecast https://www.mwis.org.uk/

Scottish Avalanche Information Service https://www.sais.gov.uk/

You’ll get an idea of why you need an ice axe and how to use it here -

You can get maps in WH Smith, outdoor shops, amazon or Dash4it - https://dash4it.co.uk/

Make sure you have a compass and know how to use it. Conditions can change quickly; cloud can come down and in winter you can quickly find yourself in a white out.

There is now an excellent path up Beinn Narnain but if it’s winter there might not be any sign of it whatsoever. And remember foot steps in the snow can quickly disappear.