An Stuc in winter

[mattpearson182]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of heading up An Stuc and a few of the others Lawers munro tomorrow on my own. Forecast is fine but cold and looks to be snow/ice at the top of Ben Lawers at least from a webcam that had no time stamp, helpful.. Anyone know how risky this is? I'm thinking the worst thing will be if I have to scramble over rocks while its icy, recipe for disaster?

Sometimes find it hard to judge what conditions will be like and how treacherous. I don't have crampons or an axe by the way!

Thanks for the advice.

Matt

[Knuckledragger]

No ice and no axe? Don't go.

Seriously, if you are wanting to tackle Munros in the winter - particularly ones with a challenging route like the NE ridge of An Stuc - you ought get the right kit - and more importantly learn how to use it.

[dav2930]

As above, if there's snow and ice on the ground, don't even think about going up An Stuc without ice axe and crampons and the ability to use them. It's very steep and the consequences of a slip are extremely serious.

[mattpearson182]

Ok glad I asked. I am assuming there may be a little snow as the top of ben lawers looks capped a little and for sure the ground will be frozen as temperature is to be -4C. Best to leave this one until the summer then. Is it fair to say if you dont have axe and crampons its best to stay off scrambling routes and below freezing level? In winter? Just trying to judge what is sensible to do on a fine cold day-all depends on experience of course.

[Fractral]

If the snow is soft (so it's grippy) and you stay away from steep slopes then you're usually in no danger winter walking without an axe. The second part is the problem, in that if you get lost and accidentally wander onto steep slopes then not having an axe can be scary at best and life-threatening at worst. For that reason I'd always carry an axe even if I don't expect to use it. They're quite cheap and last a long time, but you do need to learn how to use them.

Crampons are situational, generally only required on very steep ground or if the snow is totally frozen which is uncommon. On soft flattish snow they're an active hindrance. I actually descended the An Stuc NE ridge in the snow a few weeks back with crampons - needed them to grip into the frozen turf underneath the powder - but that was the only bit we used them for the whole walk, and we could have avoided it with some backtracking.

TL;DR get an axe and some training on how to use it if you want to go winter walking. You can get away without crampons but may find you need to turn back if the going gets icy or steep.

[jmarkb]

I would avoid tackling the steep side of An Stuc: its height and north facing aspect means that it tends to hold on to snow and ice even when other hills around are snow free. Most other non-scrambly walks in the Southern highlands are likely to be OK without winter gear this weekend. Watch out for any icy paths, though.

In general, summer scrambling routes tend to turn into proper winter mountaineering/climbing under snow and ice. Even without snow, a little lurking frost in shady spots can make rocks extremely slippery.

[davekeiller]

As a general rule, stay below the snow line if you don't have axe and crampons. That's not to say that you'll use them every time you walk on snow, but if you don't have them you might realise you need them fractionally too late!

[mattpearson182]

Well I can't say I wouldn't like an axe and now maybe I have an excuse or rather a requirement to have one.. Once I learn how to use it of course. I'll admit that I'm more of a summer walker up to now so I'll think more carefully now about where I go in winter. Was up ben venue the other week and yeah there were some icy patches but no scrambling to do so didn't even contemplate having an axe or crampons but not a particularly tricky walk.

Anyway I'll keep rambling on so that for the chat and sensible advice.

[Dave Hewitt]

In terms of webcams for that part of the world, the one at Firbush Point outdoor centre is useful and does have a timestamp:
http://webcam.firbush.org/
although as well as being quite distant (south side of Loch Tay) it should remembered that it shows the SW side of the Lawers range and therefore doesn't necessarily help much with assessment of the northern or eastern approaches in winter.

If climbing An Stuc in summer conditions or in winter with adequate kit and ability, there are alternative route options on the northern side as well as the standard NE route that most people use (and which arguably isn't a scramble as such, rather a messy loose slope that can feel quite insecure even in summer). I'm fond of the long NNW ridge - either direct to An Stuc from a Glen Lyon start or just its upper section if approaching from the Meall Garbh col and tracking rightwards across the corrie (where staying below some initial slabby stuff is probably the best line before a grassy gully takes you on to the ridge). It's also possible to outflank the messy regular section on the left/east edge of that slope - I've been up and down this way several times - but that requires some intricate routefinding and is if anything even steeper than the standard route (but thankfully more solid as it's not been eroded away over the years). None of these routes are easy winter options however: as others have said, the north side of An Stuc - and even the southern approach, for that matter - is quite a serious place in winter. It's a steep hill on all sides.

[yokehead]

It would be hypocritical of me to say 'don't go in winter' since that's exactly what I did over 6 consecutive days on my first trip to Scotland, and with no experience at that time. Marvellous it was too! However, we had a minor epic on An Stuc that you may find of interest, in terms of the mountain itself and winter trips in general.

https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=460

What I would say is, if you are planning to get out regularly in winter, a winter skills course is invaluable. As well as learning the range of skills, for me the most valuable element was being introduced to the terrain where they were needed. Led by an experienced guide, using and practising the new skills on varied and steep terrain gave me a level of insight and confidence well ahead of that I could have built alone.

As said in earlier posts, if the snow is soft and there are no dangerous slopes there will be little chance of problems, so do get out to these type of hills. But snow underfoot can change its nature within a few steps, be prepared to turn back if necessary.

Enjoy the winter and all the best, however you decide to proceed!

[mattpearson182]

Your walk report Yokehead just shows how easily things could go wrong if the conditions come together. Think that would have freaked me out. Still you certainly learned from that experience.