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New Coronavirus Law

Re: New Coronavirus Law

Postby NickyRannoch » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:02 pm

I'm guessing the justification for being able to visit friends an family wherever you like, but not to take part in leisure and recreation is that in the event that you did have COVID the track and trace system kicks in.

Anyway, looks like all things going well we should be good to go in 3 weeks time. Think I'm right in saying that during foot and mouth restrictions were in place until October?

It's too hot to walk anyway.
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Re: New Coronavirus Law

Postby Sunset tripper » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:46 am

gman wrote:Also, there is a small risk that you could unintentionally come into contact with others on your hill walk so you should not leave your local area. This will reduce the risk of spreading coronavirus. However, you can travel as far as you want if the purpose of your journey is to meet up with friends and family.

This might sound contradictory to us, but I bet it plays well with highland voters.


I live in the highlands and I don't think the government is too concerned about the highland voter, it's the central belt they really need to keep sweet if they want to stay in power.

People are now out on the hills, though I would say probably not yet at 50% of normal footfall. It looks like some hills are busier or as busy as normal while many will be a lot quieter. The partial carpark closures probably still putting a lot off, but I think that's mainly the NPs who are hellbent on keeping folk off the hills as long as possible :roll:

For me the reasons for the 5 mile nonsense is fairly clear and sensible hillwalking is not a concern for the government or the police. I would still try not to contact MRT if at all possible, but I never have before. touchwood :wink:

MRT have had a fair bit of criticism for some of their comments during the lockdown easing and maybe some are thinking they shouldnt have got involved in the political stuff.
I'm guessing most teams would now come out no questions asked, but a seed of doubt has been sown which hopefully doesnt back fire. I have been critical of some of their recent comments, also I think some of these comments have been regretted internally and they will still have my support for the future.
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Re: New Coronavirus Law

Postby Sunset tripper » Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:58 am

NickyRannoch wrote:I'm guessing the justification for being able to visit friends an family wherever you like, but not to take part in leisure and recreation is that in the event that you did have COVID the track and trace system kicks in.

I dont get that really. Someone out hillwalking has no reason to be in contact with anyone at all so track and trace shouldnt be an issue. In the unlikely event that hill walker has to get carted off a hill and the even more unlikely event that the hillwalker or a rescuer has the Corona, track and trace should be straightforward.
The advice now is you can travel any distance you like to see a friend. I haven't seen any advice to say not to use petrol pumps or shops when travelling to this new area so it can only be concluded this isn't seen as an issue, though I would have thought it would be good practice to have no contact with anybody in the new area. :?

The government advice since phase 1 has consistently given a reason for the 5 mile advice and it doesnt apply to hillwalkers who are not visiting crowded areas.

20200617_160710.jpg
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Re: New Coronavirus Law

Postby Marty_JG » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:50 am

You should avoid crowed places where physical distances may be difficult. Fine. For THIS reason you should stay in your local area.

So yes avoid crowded places... tourist hotspots... but it does not make sense to use the "avoid crowds" reason to not travel further than 5 miles to places that do not have crowds.
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Re: New Coronavirus Law

Postby Caberfeidh » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:39 am

I'm not shielding, neither is my god-daughter, and her kid is still going to school as she and her bloke are key workers. So can I go for a wander in the countryside with them, and if so can we hug? I haven't hugged them since the start of March.
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Re: New Coronavirus Law

Postby iain_atkinson_1986 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:44 am

Just read that somebody had to be lifted off Curved Ridge with a broken leg at the weekend. Wonder if they'll be charged with culpable and reckless conduct...
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Re: New Coronavirus Law

Postby Paul Webster » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:25 am

This thread is resulting in many complaints and much upset - we have decided to now close the discussion. It seems like everyone has already made their opinion very clear by this point, and it is just generating anger between users that could persist for the future.


Just a reminder of the current official guidance, which is that recreation and leisure should currently be taken within 5 miles of home. This applies to all activities that can include distancing - there is no specific restriction on hillwalking. It is planned to lift these restrictions on leisure travel in Scotland on 15th July.

You may or may not agree, but it is at least plausible that the amount of longer distance travel could enable a virus to spread:
The purpose of people staying within their local area and not travelling long distances is to limit the potential spread of the virus between communities. Coronavirus is a “silent spreader” – people can have the virus and infect others without showing symptoms. So we need to do all we can to reduce the risk of people carrying the virus from community to community by travelling.


People are permitted to travel further to see a close relative or friend (or to go shopping, get medical supplies, essential work etc.) if necessary. This clearly does not mean travelling further is 'encouraged', as some claim.

I get that some people think it's all a lot of nonsense, that there's no risk and they'll be fine doing whatever they like. And also some others think the pandemic IS serious but that they personally never fill up their car with fuel or pop into a shop for some crisps or bump into other people when hillwalking so people like them should be allowed to go where they like, so there should be an exception for them and restrictions should just be for the rest of the public. But the guidance is for everyone - you can either travel around the countryside for leisure or not.

But there is also a very large number of people who are respecting the official guidance, even if they don't necessarily agree with all of it. This includes every outdoors body in Scotland as well as every public authority - Mountain Rescue, Mountaineering Scotland, Mountain Bothy Association, Ramblers Scotland, etc. etc.

If it is of interest, we had taken advice from a legal expert on the Coronavirus law. The law says it is a criminal offence to be away from your home without 'reasonable excuse'. More than 2,000 people in Scotland have been given on-the-spot fines for lacking such an excuse, including walkers.

There was the one case where walkers were charged with reckless conduct. We do not know the circumstances behind this, so I'm not sure how wise it is to comment.

Exercise (since the start) and outdoor recreation (added later but arguably the same thing) are specifically permitted under the law, as is essential work. Travelling to work is specifically permitted, but there is no mention in the law of being able to travel to then undertake recreation or leisure. The current guidance - not the law - says you can travel 5 miles. We took advice from a legal expert on this, and were told that what is 'a reasonable excuse' is a matter of interpretation, and the guidance assists in that. There are no precedents so any resulting cases would be uncertain, whatever anyones opinion might be. An interpretation that you could legally travel as far as you like to exercise was described as an 'extremely bold' one by the legal expert.
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