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Managing tourism - working together

Managing tourism - working together


Postby bootsandpaddles » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:03 am

Thanks for your constructive and thought-provoking article about managing tourism, Paul. There are lots of good ideas but all will need a great deal of investment and many different organisations working together from a national level right down to a very local level.The pandemic has revealed the many weaknesses in Scottish provision for tourists and creating a hostile environment is not going to solve the problems.
I think that a local approach is probably the best way to go as local people are very aware of the problems that exist in their own area. However, I would imagine that funding for such things as rubbish bins, waste disposal points, toilets, extra parking would have to provided by national organisations. Visit Scotland has been running a Rural Tourism Infrastructure Fund, mainly it would seem, in response to the chaos of the NC500. Local authorities and NPs can apply for funding for projects such as parking, campervan facilities including disposal points, viewpoints and toilets. However, the £6 million on offer, whilst very welcome, is a drop in the ocean compared to what is needed. But it is a start.
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Re: Managing tourism - working together

Postby Sunset tripper » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:06 pm

Yes great article from Paul. I have visited France many times and this is one of the things they have got right along with transport infrastructure.
It's a mindset and hard to change. Compare parking in the alps to parking in the lake district for example. Even in parts of Scotland nowadays it is a fairly common view that you shouldn't get anything for nothing and charging what you like for a parking space is fair game.
I was never a big fan of French toilets in the past but they have improved a lot, more recently. :D
Meanwhile in the highlands the councils are trying to close toilets while the need for them gets greater.

No easy answer and of course a lot of things to be proud of in Scotland, like the world class access laws, but still a lot of stuff we can learn from France.
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Re: Managing tourism - working together

Postby al78 » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:15 pm

I don't see a problem paying for parking. Car parks cost money to maintain and footpaths cost money to maintain. Why shouldn't some of that money come from the users of such facilities?
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Re: Managing tourism - working together

Postby Tringa » Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:29 pm

Agree al78.

Part of the problem highland Scotland is seeing now is caused by people who do not want to pay anything for their overnight stays.

There are very good points in the article, some of which could be applied in Scotland.

Although there is a link to the official guidance about access and wild camping its a pity it wasn't made clear in the article that - "Scottish access rights apply to non-motorised recreation and do not therefore extend to activities that are entirely based on the use of a vehicle, such as sleeping in cars, camper vans or caravans"

Although the majority of campervans/motor homes have toilet facilities and fresh water tanks on board it seems from comments on social media there are plenty of visitors whose transport does not. However, I do appreciate it is the one irresponsible/uncaring/ignorant person who leaves their litter or craps in by the roadside that gets a mention on Facebook etc and not the one who acts reasonably.

Perhaps developing village car parks as rest stops, with toilets, water and waste facilities, as in France might help, but hands up anyone who would vote for a rest stop over their back garden wall. For those who know Ullapool, think about the houses that back on to the Latheron Lane car park.

Changing people views is certainly very important though it will take a long time to achieve. I think some folks who visit the highlands(and other more remote areas)

(a) want all of the facilities they have back home in a town or city to be available everywhere, and
(b) have no understanding of how rural area work.

and cannot understand when things aren't available or why stopping wherever they like and doing whatever they like is not acceptable.

Though a comment in this video doesn't help -

"In Scotland you can go wild camping you can just make a fire and camp wherever you want"

Dave








I agree education is
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Re: Managing tourism - working together

Postby iain_atkinson_1986 » Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:53 pm

al78 wrote:I don't see a problem paying for parking. Car parks cost money to maintain and footpaths cost money to maintain. Why shouldn't some of that money come from the users of such facilities?


I'd be happy to pay for parking so long as it's not £9 or whatever is being charged by Argyll and Bute Council.
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Re: Managing tourism - working together

Postby Sunset tripper » Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:33 pm

al78 wrote:I don't see a problem paying for parking. Car parks cost money to maintain and footpaths cost money to maintain. Why shouldn't some of that money come from the users of such facilities?


Exactly my point Al. It's a mindset and many agree with you.
Of course these things have to be paid for, they are paid for in France in a different way a fairer way. In the lakes they were screwing people for parking and companies and individuals were making vast profits for themselves. I guess in the lakes they are too busy in many places so it is a way of pricing people out of the area. Councils in the highlands of Scotland are now using parking charges and fines to create income that is not reinvested.

A perfect example of this mindset is the south east of England. One of the richest areas in europe and some of the richest individuals in the world with some of the worst transport infrastructure.
I suppose at least, most of the M25 is a big free car park. Probably many a campervan spent a few hours there parked up :D
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Re: Managing tourism - working together

Postby Marty_JG » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:16 pm

iain_atkinson_1986 wrote:
al78 wrote:I don't see a problem paying for parking. Car parks cost money to maintain and footpaths cost money to maintain. Why shouldn't some of that money come from the users of such facilities?


I'd be happy to pay for parking so long as it's not £9 or whatever is being charged by Argyll and Bute Council.


And just into the council coffers (where the council resides is free parking, obviously). It would sting a bit less if the revenue were being used for facilities, but the council is charging for parking for areas managed by trusts and volunteers - no the councils.
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Re: Managing tourism - working together

Postby al78 » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:32 pm

Sunset tripper wrote:A perfect example of this mindset is the south east of England. One of the richest areas in europe and some of the richest individuals in the world with some of the worst transport infrastructure.
I suppose at least, most of the M25 is a big free car park. Probably many a campervan spent a few hours there parked up :D


I disagree SE England has some of the worst transport infrastructure. People moan about the trains but they do in general get people to work (if you want to see a poor rail network, look at Northern rail). We have a decent network of primary routes and dual carriageways for people who have (want) to drive. The transport problems in the SE are almost entirely due to too many people living here, because so many want the high salary London jobs and want to live in the pretty leafy suburbs, and lots of people taking one car each to get into urban areas with very limited space. It doesn't help that we have a population with some of the worst situational awareness I have ever seen, which exasperates the feeling of everyone in everyone elses way.
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Re: Managing tourism - working together

Postby Gareth Harper » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:17 pm

I'd be happy to pay for parking so long as it's not £9 or whatever is being charged by Argyll and Bute Council.


Agree. I don't think many people object to paying for the provision and upkeep of a car park. But Argyll and Bute have increased the charge for the day from one pound to nine pounds. It is a rip off. Not to mention no facilities whatsoever are provided. Shocking.

Welcome to rip off Argyll and Bute.
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Re: Managing tourism - working together

Postby Spade » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:25 pm

The French system is certainly one we can learn from. Thy wouldn't tolerate the £9 or more fees imposed in some places in Scotland or other parts of Great Britain, they would boycott it.
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Re: Managing tourism - working together

Postby Marty_JG » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:31 pm

That French sign though... no fires, no camping, no bikes... "no" is French for fun I guess.
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Re: Managing tourism - working together

Postby al78 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:05 am

Marty_JG wrote:That French sign though... no fires, no camping, no bikes... "no" is French for fun I guess.


No fires is not a bad thing IMO.

https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/environment-and-conservation/2020/04/british-wildfires-are-getting-more-frequent-heres-what-that

If "no bikes" means motorbikes, that is not a bad thing in some areas, they can cause significant damage.

Fun should not mean causing harm or imposing costs on others, there are plenty of ways to have fun without doing these.
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Re: Managing tourism - working together

Postby Marty_JG » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:41 pm

Well, OK if it's motorbikes, but we have that too.

France gets brutally hot & dry at times, and for expended periods. Camping in Scotland in high-midge without the ability to safely have a fire to keep 'em at bay? Are we really at the level of fire destruction in Scotland yet?
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Re: Managing tourism - working together

Postby al78 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:16 pm

Marty_JG wrote:Well, OK if it's motorbikes, but we have that too.

France gets brutally hot & dry at times, and for expended periods. Camping in Scotland in high-midge without the ability to safely have a fire to keep 'em at bay? Are we really at the level of fire destruction in Scotland yet?


Yes, in prolonged dry periods.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48798789
https://www.sbrcentre.co.uk/news/2020/april/wildfire-risk-in-scotland/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-52424521
https://www.nature.scot/naturescot-warns-increased-wildfire-risk-north-scotland

Find another way of deterring the midges, or don't go in peak midge season.
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Re: Managing tourism - working together

Postby Marty_JG » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:50 pm

al78 wrote:Find another way of deterring the midges, or don't go in peak midge season.


The non-midge season is crampon season. :lol:

Have a look at the scale of wildfires in France, thousands sometimes tens of thousands evacuated every year. The heat killst thousands dead every year. Temperatures seasonally hitting 45c, and above 35c for sustained periods (a fortnight or so) where the the Scottish highest ever peak, one day, temperature was 33c. We're not at France's stage yet. We're absolutely still in the range where we can have responsible fires (including twig stoves and raised firepits which would still not be suitable in France).
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