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Hello and advice for Cairngorms hike next week

Hello and advice for Cairngorms hike next week


Postby mossie23 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:51 am

Hello all,

First of all let me say that I really appreciate all the information available on this website. Such a valuable resource for planning hikes in beautiful Scotland and getting a feel for the lay of the land.

I would consider myself an intermediate hiker and even though I've done long distance solo hikes all over Europe (including the WHW twice), I feel that hiking in the wilder places of Scotland asks for a couple of specific skills that I still need to develop. Ever since reading Nan Shepard's 'The living mountain' (which I consider one of the finest books on mountains ever written), I have longed to experience the Cairngorms myself.

The plan is now to visit the Cairngorms next week, and follow the Scottish National Trail from Pitlochry to Kingussie, which seems like a good hike to get a feel for the Cairngorms. I'm keeping an eye out for the local weather and it seems to be rather fine for the time of year (just like here in the Netherlands). I have a couple of specific questions though:

- In one of the descriptions it says: "There are three potentially difficult river crossings - usually these require a paddle, but in spate conditions can become impassable, particularly the crossing of the River Geldie." I already figured out what 'spate conditions' are, but what does 'usually these require a paddle' mean?
- Regarding 'spate' conditions', what are the most common times for these to happen? Springtime with snowmelt is obvious, but is there a specific time of the year when there are particularly heavy rains in the Cairngorms?
- Would anybody with local knowledge advice against the specific route I intend to take next week? Of course I'll come thoroughly prepared, but the map is not the territory.

Thanks in advance for any help,
Michel
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Re: Hello and advice for Cairngorms hike next week

Postby HalfManHalfTitanium » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:28 pm

Hi Micehl

I can answer two of your three questions. the other one requires local knowledge but hopefully there will be someone out there with that knowledge.

In one of the descriptions it says: "There are three potentially difficult river crossings - usually these require a paddle, but in spate conditions can become impassable, particularly the crossing of the River Geldie." I already figured out what 'spate conditions' are, but what does 'usually these require a paddle' mean?


All it means is taking boots and socks off, rolling trousers up, and paddling through the water :wink:

Regarding 'spate' conditions', what are the most common times for these to happen? Springtime with snowmelt is obvious, but is there a specific time of the year when there are particularly heavy rains in the Cairngorms?


Spate conditions can happen any time of the year. In my experience, May, June and September are sometimes slightly drier than other months, but any month of the year can turn out to be the wettest, or the driest.

So, at any time of year, if I plan a route involving a river crossing, I tend to have a Plan B in case of a lot of rain. For example, last week I contacted the estate manager of Glen Lochay regarding crossing the river to reach the hill Meall Glas. After discussing the expected water levels with him, I decided to plan a different walk.

Hope that helps!

Tim
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Re: Hello and advice for Cairngorms hike next week

Postby Caberfeidh » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:49 pm

mossie23 wrote:In one of the descriptions it says: "There are three potentially difficult river crossings - usually these require a paddle, but in spate conditions can become impassable, particularly the crossing of the River Geldie." I already figured out what 'spate conditions' are, but what does 'usually these require a paddle' mean?


This means that you have to take off your shoes and socks, roll up your trousers and walk into the water. This should not be attempted in strong currents, as water just up to your knees can knock you off balance with potentially fatal results.
Spate means flooding as in after rain. The streams in the Cairngorms act like storm-drains and can fill up remarkably quickly after rain has fallen a long way off - you might not even encounter the rain, but you will find a river suddenly in dangerous spate conditions. I once hiked into Loch A'an in snowy conditions, camped overnight and there was a thaw. All the snow melted and the burns (Burn = Scottish term for stream) swelled up to bursting. On the way back down Glen Derry I had to climb high up the hillsides to cross the burns which had been shallow and peaceful enough to stroll through the day before on the way in . In the spate I could hear boulders knocking together on their way down the beds of the burns. Rain heavy enough to cause spates in the rivers on that trail you mention can happen any time, and we have had some very heavy rain recently.
I have never been on that trail you mention, but I believe the Lairig Ghru between Aviemore and Braemar is better, and shows some much better scenery, if you go via Glen Luibeg and Glen Lui, NOT via the Chest O'Dee and White Bridge route. An alternative is from Cairngorm ski area over to Loch A'an (spelled Avon on maps) and then over the hill past Loch Etchachan then onto Glen Derry and down to Glen Luibeg and Glen Lui. Nice time of year for it, but look out for stags bellowing in the rut, avoid going into their territory as they can get stroppy. https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103&p=172875&hilit=+stag+nation#p172875

Rothiemurcus Forest.JPG
Rothiemurchus Forest


Derry Woods.JPG
Glen Derry from Luibeg
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Re: Hello and advice for Cairngorms hike next week

Postby mossie23 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:53 pm

Hello Tim,

Many thanks for your answers!

HalfManHalfTitanium wrote:All it means is taking boots and socks off, rolling trousers up, and paddling through the water :wink:


Good, as a non-native speaker, I was already afraid I had to carry a paddle with me the whole hike. Which would be quite a sight... ;)

HalfManHalfTitanium wrote:So, at any time of year, if I plan a route involving a river crossing, I tend to have a Plan B in case of a lot of rain. For example, last week I contacted the estate manager of Glen Lochay regarding crossing the river to reach the hill Meall Glas. After discussing the expected water levels with him, I decided to plan a different walk.


Contacting local lodges or estates sounds like a really good plan. I will have a look at what's around my intended route.

Best,
Michel
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Re: Hello and advice for Cairngorms hike next week

Postby mossie23 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:38 pm

Caberfeidh wrote:On the way back down Glen Derry I had to climb high up the hillsides to cross the burns which had been shallow and peaceful enough to stroll through the day before on the way in . In the spate I could hear boulders knocking together on their way down the beds of the burns. Rain heavy enough to cause spates in the rivers on that trail you mention can happen any time, and we have had some very heavy rain recently.


Thanks for the reply! Trying to find a point higher up the hill is a good suggestion, although it might not always work I guess. I've forded (slow flowing) rivers in Norway where the water came up to my hips, but it's good that you mention that sometimes in Scotland the spate can even transport boulders. That adds to the danger.

It seems that planning trails with river crossings just means being prepared for the worst. Checking weather forecasts to get a feel for the amount of rain that falls in a period (as I do now), is probably not detailed enough, as rain can be quite local.

Caberfeidh wrote:I have never been on that trail you mention, but I believe the Lairig Ghru between Aviemore and Braemar is better, and shows some much better scenery, if you go via Glen Luibeg and Glen Lui, NOT via the Chest O'Dee and White Bridge route. An alternative is from Cairngorm ski area over to Loch A'an (spelled Avon on maps) and then over the hill past Loch Etchachan then onto Glen Derry and down to Glen Luibeg and Glen Lui. Nice time of year for it, but look out for stags bellowing in the rut, avoid going into their territory as they can get stroppy. https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103&p=172875&hilit=+stag+nation#p172875


As my trail doesn't go through the heart of the Cairngorms, I will no doubt miss out on some great views. But I'm in no hurry. The Cairngorms will be there for as long as I live, and I'll no doubt be back ;) My intention is first and foremost to get a feel for the region, and I think my route will already give me enough to chew on.

Regarding staggs, anything I need to watch out for?

Best,
Michel
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Re: Hello and advice for Cairngorms hike next week

Postby Essan » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:59 pm

You should have no problem with stags - but you may well hearing them "roaring" in the night.

Crossing the Geldie shouldn't be a problem so long as it hasn't been raining heavily. When you drop into Glen Feshie though you will need to ford the river twice in quick succession and this can be at least thigh deep but is safe so long as the there hasnt been recent rain (the path has been washed away and it may be possible to climb up the hill and avoid the river, but fording it is probably safer and easier!)

If rivers are in spate, they usually drop back again quite quickly - they can change a great deal in one day.

It is not the most dramatic landscape in Scotland, but the crossing from the Geldie to the Feshie takes you through one of the remotest spots (from a public road) anywhere in Britain.

There is an excellent bothy to stay in at Ruigh Aiteachain :)
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Re: Hello and advice for Cairngorms hike next week

Postby HalfManHalfTitanium » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:17 am

I forgot to say: you can find phone numbers and sometimes email addresses for contacting the estates here.

https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/Practical-guide/Public/heading-for-the-scottish-hills

The website is designed for contacting the estates about deer stalking (that is, hunting - the main stalking season comes to an end soon). But I tend to use the website for asking about local conditions such as river crossings, and the ones I've contacted have always been friendly and helpful.

Tim
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Re: Hello and advice for Cairngorms hike next week

Postby Caberfeidh » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:43 pm

mossie23 wrote: ...Regarding staggs, anything I need to watch out for?


The pointy end... :shock:
Mostly they just bellow and posture, attack is very unusual but people have been gored. Stay away from the territory being defended by the stag - usually a big patch of hillside - and if he comes at you, chuck rocks at him and make yourself scarce! Hide up a tree or in an unassailable position. I only got down out of that tree by howling like a pack of wolves. Do not wear a furry hat with antlers on it and make bellowing noises like a stag. Trust me on this... :shock:
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