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Extremely warm sleeping top

Extremely warm sleeping top


Postby TheRealLurlock » Sun May 22, 2022 1:22 pm

My wife gets very cold at night in the tent, even in summer. We are looking for the warmest possible layer she can wear inside the sleeping bag.
  • It needs to be tight-fitting and hug close to her back, which is where she says she feels the coldest
  • It needs to pack small. We don't have the space in our bags to take a thick woolly jumper
  • Ideally it would have a full-zip front so it's easy to put on, but this isn't essential
  • It does not need to be breatheable, wicking, active-fit, etc. It would be worn purely for sleeping and not whilst on the move
  • It does not need to layer particularly well. Layering doesn't seem to help her much at night - last time we were out she wore three baselayers, two down jackets (hers and mine), and two outer jackets inside the sleeping bag and was still cold (meanwhile I was fine in a t-shirt and long johns).
  • Obviously, the lighter the better but happy to trade some weight for more warmth
The problem we're encountering is that all the fleece tops we can find in outdoor shops are designed for breathability, etc., because they're intended to be worn during the day, and so aren't as warm as we'd like especially for the prices being charged. We really just want maximum warmth without paying for the other technical properties of whatever fabrics they use in these things.

So far the best thing we've found is a £10 recycled polyester fleece from Decathlon. It's much warmer and more comfortable than the £100+ Arcteryx, Rab, etc. fleece tops, but it's heavier and doesn't pack down very small.

Any suggestions would be hugely appreciated!
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Re: Extremely warm sleeping top

Postby davekeiller » Sun May 22, 2022 2:01 pm

Have you tried a thicker sleeping mat?
It might be easier to upgrade the sleeping bag rather than wear lots of warm clothing inside it.

The problem you're going to encounter is that pretty much all insulated clothing works by trapping a layer of air close to the body. If you're lying down, then what's underneath you gets compressed, so it can't trap air so effectively.
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Re: Extremely warm sleeping top

Postby TheRealLurlock » Sun May 22, 2022 2:24 pm

We used an off-brand sleeping mat without a stated R rating last time. It certainly wouldn't have helped and it developed a fault anyway and needs replacing, so I now have my eye on a 4.2 r value mat which I'm waiting to come back into stock. I'm aware that's far from the warmest around but I haven't found a higher r value which isn't about triple the weight (1kg vs 3.3kg+). We also placed a closed cell foam mat under the sleeping mat.

Nevertheless I want to consider clothing as well because I doubt a warmer sleeping mat will solve the problem by itself. My wife actually got warmer by getting out of the sleeping bag and pulling it over herself like a quilt, sleeping directly on the mat. Replacing the sleeping bag isn't an option.

As far as the mechanism of insulation - it wasn't actually the part of her in contact with the mat which was coldest. She sleeps on her side and says it was her back which was the worst.
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Re: Extremely warm sleeping top

Postby Mal Grey » Sun May 22, 2022 8:36 pm

Nothing has the same warmth for weight ratio as down. I'd possibly try a down gilet/vest to keep the core warm.

However I'm one of those folk who subscribe to the wearing as little as possible so I can warm the bag up more quickly view. I'll wear a base layer top, but if I am likely to be at the limit of my sleeping bag, I'll either throw my down jacket over the top or I'm often carrying my Alpkit Hunka bivi as an emergency shelter - this really increases the warmth of my bag.

The comments on mats are definitely valid.

Also, making sure you're fed and warm before getting into the bag makes a real difference. If you're already chilled, a few minutes of modest exercise makes a difference. Some people do sit ups in their bag but I just find that putting on my warm clothing and doing a few pre-bad tasks; putting stuff away, preparing stuff for the next day, is normally enough activity to get my body warmed up. If you're still chilled, a few things like arm-swinging can help.

And if she's still cold before going to sleep, a bit of snuggling up isn't going to do any harm! :D
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Re: Extremely warm sleeping top

Postby WalkWithWallace » Sun May 22, 2022 8:47 pm

Any clothing worn should be lose fitting to allow your blood to circulate. I'd wear merino base layers and maybe pair that up with a silk liner.

What rating is the sleeping bag you're using? I'd maybe look at a mat with a higher R value,

What's really fundamental is eating. Is she actually eating enough? Lack of nourishment means your body can't generate heat inside the sleeping bag and you'll feel the cold.
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Re: Extremely warm sleeping top

Postby ohsosky » Sun May 22, 2022 9:52 pm

I sleep very cold too. At night I wear a bamboo long sleeve top that I have for during the day and a half zip craghopper fleece on top, the baggier less technical type. The fleece isn’t the smallest pack size in the world but I don’t think it’s too bad and I’ve been grateful for the extra layer before!!

I always have a hot chocolate before sleeping too (doesn’t make me need a pee!!) and fill my bottle up with hot water and put it in my bag for extra warmth! Just make sure your bottle is heat resistant… :roll: :shock:
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Re: Extremely warm sleeping top

Postby sking40 » Sun May 22, 2022 11:05 pm

You should have a look at the Alpkit Heiko jacket - it fits every requirement on your list I think and is also good as a windproof in the hills and for wild camping in cool summer conditions. I think I must have slept in it at least once inside a sleeping when I got cold in the night. I think the design and insulation has changed since I bought one on sale years ago so there may be differences in performance of the current ones, but definitely worth considering.
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Re: Extremely warm sleeping top

Postby davekeiller » Mon May 23, 2022 8:32 pm

I'm not sure why replacing the sleeping bag isn't an option, but I think one of the issues here might be that if you put too many layers on, the outer layers compress the inner layers and stop them from trapping air close to the body effectively.
That's possibly why she felt warmer getting out of the sleeping bag and using it like a quilt.
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Re: Extremely warm sleeping top

Postby Scottk » Thu May 26, 2022 11:49 pm

Has her sleeping bag got neck baffles? It may be that the air is circulating down her back when she is on her side.
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Re: Extremely warm sleeping top

Postby matt_outandabout » Fri May 27, 2022 12:14 am

My wife gets cold too.

She is petite - a smaller and better sleeping bag made a big difference.
Making sure she uses baffles and hood well improved things.
She (and I) wear one layer of merino longjohns, top and socks in bed. Warm toes = warmer elsewhere.
A mat, heavier but warmer, was a real improvement.
Hot water bottle and going to bed warm and fed helps.
There are two of you - get some cuddles going on.
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Re: Extremely warm sleeping top

Postby davekeiller » Sat May 28, 2022 11:41 am

If the sleeping bag is too long for her, then putting a belt around it to close off the bottom of the bag might help. Neck baffles are definitely helpful.
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Re: Extremely warm sleeping top

Postby TheRealLurlock » Sat May 28, 2022 1:22 pm

Thanks for the input everyone. I really appreciate it.

My wife tried on a lot of tops and jackets at a wide range of prices and we've ended up settling on this fleece: https://www.trekitt.co.uk/clothing/jackets/montane-womens-tundra-jacket-orion-blue__43655, although I should say that we bought it at a much bigger discount than Trekitt are offering at the moment and it only cost us £40.

It doesn't pack as small as we'd like, but it is much warmer than anything else she tried on, is neither too tight nor too loose, and is thin enough to fit underneath her down jacket.

We're not going to replace the sleeping bag because it's brand new, rated for low temperatures, and was very expensive. It also wouldn't be as helpful to do so because the cold is still a problem when moving/cooking/etc. in and around the tent, and it's easier to wear a fleece than a sleeping bag.
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Re: Extremely warm sleeping top

Postby WalkWithWallace » Sat May 28, 2022 7:42 pm

I hope it works, but I have my doubts. :?

Throwing different layers into the mix might not actually resolve the real cause. It's more like her sleeping pad, offering little or no insulation and what is often overlooked is eating lots of nutritious food that will increase body temperature so you can warm up your bag. Imagine an emersion heater, if there is no hot water in the tank then the insulated jacket has nothing to keep warm. Same applies in a sleeping bag, the bag is insulation and needs heat to work.
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Re: Extremely warm sleeping top

Postby davekeiller » Sun May 29, 2022 3:35 pm

I'm a little doubtful too.
The fact that your wife was cold in the evening whilst cooking etc. suggests that the problem isn't the sleeping bag.

Is your wife normally a cold sleeper? If she doesn't normally require a thicker duvet than you, or lots of warm layers to sleep in, then why would it be different while camping?
I suspect the issue might be related to lack of food and/or staying in wet clothing for too long. If you get wet during the day, either from sweat or from rain, then drying yourself off and putting on some dry clothing in the evening will make a real difference. This is especially true if you wear cotton.
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