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What bike do I need?

Re: What bike do I need?

Postby Marty_JG » Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:12 pm

My EMTB has burnt many more calories than my MTB ever did. I simply go further, and more frequently, on the EMTB. Apparently my experience is not uncommon. It's always a joy to looking forward to ride - never a chore. You can also tone-down or ramp-up the assistance, and toning-down or turning-off the assistance of a 25kg bike... you certainly do get a work out. And that's what I tend to do, knacker myself out, up the assistance, catch my breath, drop it back down again... basically interval training but at my pace not the happenstance of the environment.

They are heavy though. If you get into trouble on a trail you're less likely to be able to physically force the bike back under control. You will struggle to get them on a roof rack or into the boot - a back rack or trailer rack is the way to go. And a locked fence? You have to be strong and lift correctly else you'll put your back out.

That said I agree there is a lot to be said for a nice basic hardtail "clockwork" MTB or Hybrid.
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Re: What bike do I need?

Postby cruachan06 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:03 pm

Marty_JG wrote:A Halfords Carrera is about £400 new and that means about half that on the masses of Gumtree adverts (depending where you live).


Thanks for the tip, I've been meaning to post a similar question about doing some cycling to mix things up a bit and also potentially bike-pack some routes like the Forth & Clyde Canal towpath. Seems to be loads of these bikes on eBay and Gumtree and they get good reviews online.
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Re: What bike do I need?

Postby AyrshireAlps » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:09 pm

Gravel bikes are fine on smooth estate tracks, but once it gets rocky, they're shite unless you're a bloody good bike handler.

There must be loads of unused and unloved fatbikes around, they were a huge fad for a few years, but most folk got fed up of them. Absolutely perfect for chuntering over big rocky paths.

If it was me, I'd be looking at the likes of a trek caliber hardtail.
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Re: What bike do I need?

Postby Marty_JG » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:34 pm

cruachan06 wrote:Thanks for the tip, I've been meaning to post a similar question about doing some cycling to mix things up a bit and also potentially bike-pack some routes like the Forth & Clyde Canal towpath. Seems to be loads of these bikes on eBay and Gumtree and they get good reviews online.


They're good "civilian" bikes but they might not last many miles of "Black Grade" MTB tracks.

You could do worse than popping into a local bike shop if you have one.
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Re: What bike do I need?

Postby davekeiller » Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:02 pm

The main options are a hybrid or mountain bike.
Hybrids are really designed for road use, but I've taken them off road on estate tracks and they can actually handle a certain amount of rough terrain. The advantage is that they're light, the disadvantages are that they generally have no suspension (so you feel the bumps) and come with narrow tyres which are fine on the roads, but don't necessarily have much grip off-road. It is easy enough to replace tyres with wider, more knobbly ones.
Mountain bikes are designed for off road use and tend to be a bit more robust, suspension meaning they'll be more comfortable on bumpy surfaces. The disadvantages are that they're heavier and the tyres will have more rolling resistance on smooth(ish) surfaces like roads.
Either way it's a trade-off, and ultimately it's a matter of personal preference.
Personally, I'd be looking to find what I can get second hand from a local bike shop.
I'd be looking to get a rack and panniers, as this means you can have a lighter rucksack, which makes the ride in more comfortable.
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Re: What bike do I need?

Postby cruachan06 » Sat Jul 23, 2022 1:43 pm

Marty_JG wrote:
cruachan06 wrote:Thanks for the tip, I've been meaning to post a similar question about doing some cycling to mix things up a bit and also potentially bike-pack some routes like the Forth & Clyde Canal towpath. Seems to be loads of these bikes on eBay and Gumtree and they get good reviews online.


They're good "civilian" bikes but they might not last many miles of "Black Grade" MTB tracks.

You could do worse than popping into a local bike shop if you have one.


Won't be an issue for me, cycle paths and light trails only I would expect. Probably will pop in to my local Halfords and try one out though, as (typically) I'm right between sizes according to their online guide.
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Re: What bike do I need?

Postby Marty_JG » Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:36 pm

cruachan06 wrote:
Marty_JG wrote:
cruachan06 wrote:Thanks for the tip, I've been meaning to post a similar question about doing some cycling to mix things up a bit and also potentially bike-pack some routes like the Forth & Clyde Canal towpath. Seems to be loads of these bikes on eBay and Gumtree and they get good reviews online.


They're good "civilian" bikes but they might not last many miles of "Black Grade" MTB tracks.

You could do worse than popping into a local bike shop if you have one.


Won't be an issue for me, cycle paths and light trails only I would expect. Probably will pop in to my local Halfords and try one out though, as (typically) I'm right between sizes according to their online guide.


Aye, I didn't think you'd be crushing it on the gnarly runs. :D

Another "production" place to check out is Decathlon. I bought my ebike from them, delighted with the quality and price.

Their "introduction" range is Rockrider and they have a model starting at £230 with a number of "better component" models in the £300 to £400 range, and even a full suspension model at £450. That is a VERY good price.

You won't benefit from the "better components" because, yeah, they're for crushing it on the gnarly runs. But the full suspension might be of interest... they're literally less of a pain in the arse.

LINK : Decathlon non-Electric Rockriders, Male, sorted by Price.
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Re: What bike do I need?

Postby Sunset tripper » Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:16 pm

Another vote for a hardtail from me. I got a kona entry level hardtail in 2007, probably similar to rockhoppers with 26" wheels which is no longer a thing. After a while I upgraded to hydraulic brakes as I found the cable disc brakes I was using struggled on long downhill tracks. The bike's still going strong but recently the front forks seized and I used it up to Glen Callater and Gulvain. On the run out you certainly know what you're missing and how rattled you would get on a hybrid. I had to slow down probably 50%.

I pump the tyres up to max or slightly above, around 65psi, which makes it better on the tarmac and good on the smoother tracks, you can always let a little out if on real rough stuff.
It was around £450 in 2007 now a similar standard kona will be about £750 but that's brand new, fantastic bikes.

All the best with your choice. :D
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Re: What bike do I need?

Postby mproudfoot » Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:58 pm

Marty_JG wrote:Cheapest bog-standard hardtail MTB you can get. Personally I love my full suspension EMTB but who'd want to leave an expensive toy for hours? A Halfords Carrera is about £400 new and that means about half that on the masses of Gumtree adverts (depending where you live).

If you're less likely to worry than me and you're okay leaving a slightly more expensive bike at the bottom of a hill, you can start to get a hardtail EMTB for about £1000. You still have to pedal, but my goodness it takes out some of the pain especially on the climbs. Those three miles will wizz by whilst leaving a huge grin on your face and no creak in your knees... providing you're okay with hedging the thing in the wild for a few hours you'll actually look forward to the cycle home.

Electric bikes are huge fun. Even the most ardent "clockwork" advocate can't help but flash a grin of enthusiasm when they first try an E-Bike.


Agree with all of this, my budget 29er hardtail has seen me over a lot of pretty rough routes into hills and I’d experienced hard rock strikes, water up to the hubs, and a couple of topples - I don’t think I’d have fancied taking something like an expensive carbon bike on some of those. I do like the idea of an eMTB but I’d like at least to get the hills done under my own steam at least once (that’s a me thing though, no judging here for those that use eBikes).
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Re: What bike do I need?

Postby matt_outandabout » Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:58 am

Sunset tripper wrote:

I pump the tyres up to max or slightly above, around 65psi, which makes it better on the tarmac and good on the smoother tracks, you can always let a little out if on real rough stuff.



Oooft, my fillings feel that!
There's some good evidence from Schwalbe of lower pressures being faster on anything other than billiard smooth new tarmac.
Such high pressures are old Roady and old technology tyre culture.
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Re: What bike do I need?

Postby HalfManHalfTitanium » Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:53 am

Just a quick note, for anyone reading this thread who is concerned about cost (Halfords Carrera new, as noted above, is around £400, with all other new hardtail MTBs being more expensive apart from Halfords/Decathlon cheap models).

I bought a bike a few months ago, simply for riding the easy tracks and private roads, to shorten walk-ins in places like the Cairngorms.

I got a reconditioned 20 year old Marin Muirwoods (at the time, this was a front suspension bike) for £100, and it's perfect for what I need. I can also leave it by the roadside and not spend the day worrying if it will get stolen!

tim
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Re: What bike do I need?

Postby Gareth Harper » Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:06 am

Interesting discussion.
Think the weight of an e-bike would put me off to be honest. That and I would take the calories burnt riding a bike than the convenience of an e-bike.

But surely your original interest in a bike was to make accessing the hills easier. And ebikes are the bees knees in that respect.
One of the consequences of rougher cycling terrain is that while it will always save you time, the transfer from cycling to walking can be demanding aerobically and basically result in feeling more tired than if just walking.

Totally agree with that. If you are going to use a conventional bike to access the more remote hills, then you need to get out and about on it and get cycle fit, otherwise the bike will do you in before you even get started on the hill. Even with an ebike it makes sense to be bike fit.
My EMTB has burnt many more calories than my MTB ever did. I simply go further, and more frequently, on the EMTB. Apparently my experience is not uncommon. It's always a joy to looking forward to ride - never a chore. You can also tone-down or ramp-up the assistance, and toning-down or turning-off the assistance of a 25kg bike... you certainly do get a work out. And that's what I tend to do, knacker myself out, up the assistance, catch my breath, drop it back down again... basically interval training but at my pace not the happenstance of the environment.

Absolutely. Most people don’t ‘get’ ebikes until they try one. I got one for two main reasons, I struggle with my knees and have had great difficulty in riding a conventional bike. Two, yup to make hill access easier. Also having a cycle to work scheme really helped with purchasing a bike, and yes I do often cycle to work on it.

My ebike gives me all sorts of information. One thing it tells me is how much effort I am putting in and how many calories I am burning. Admittedly these are guide figures but interesting nonetheless. So, on my way home from work I often take a detour for fun and exercise. It takes me up and back down about 1300 feet. Sometimes I stick it in eco and suffer to try and build more leg strength. As the fitter you are the more fun you can have on your ebike. I checked the power meter, I was sustaining up to and over 300 watts over a period of time to climb the hill – and it was absolute hell. But other nights I just leave the bike in ‘intelligent mode’ and step on it. I fly up the hill like a tour rider and it is absolutely outrageous mad fun. One evening when doing that I checked the power meter – I was putting out over 300watts, though admittedly over a much shorter time period, but I was having so much fun at no time did I really feel I was suffering, I was just having fun.

Ebikes aren’t as some folks say cheating, they are just a method of going further faster and having much more fun. You also have to be careful you don’t overdo it. Ebikes are so fun you can overtire yourself without initially noticing.

As for hills, I recently cycled up Corryhabbie Hill via Glenfiddich Lodge from the B9009. I then returned to the B9009, cycled down to Tomachlaven and then up and over Ben Rinnes returning to the car via Roy’s Hill. Two separate Corbett summits in one day by ebike. I used the full battery and was pretty knackered too but it was an absolute hoot.

Also recently did Maoile Lunndaigh. Parked the car at Craig. Got the ebike out. About 30 minutes later I was at the plantation near Glenuaig Lodge. Dumped the bike there. Popped up Maoile Lunndaigh, back to the ebike and returned to the car. That walk would have previously knocked the stuffing out of me, but I got back to the car feeling as fresh as a daisy.

I have just finished stripping down my old 90’s mountain bike, fixing it up and putting it back together. So, if I can get on with it, I might use it for some of the flatter routes. As naw I’m not that keen on leaving my fancy full suspension emtb lying about. But then that is probably as much to do with my townie mentality, than the possibility of somebody actually nicking my bike in the middle of nowhere (isn’t it?).

But yeah, love my ebike. Downsides – they ain’t that much fun to lift over fences or locked gates. Obviously, the cost of buying one. Mine eats bicycle chains and turns knobbly tires into slicks surprisingly quickly.
But if you fancy one and can afford or justify it, go for it. Ebikes rule if you ask me.
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Re: What bike do I need?

Postby Sunset tripper » Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:14 pm

matt_outandabout wrote:
Sunset tripper wrote:

I pump the tyres up to max or slightly above, around 65psi, which makes it better on the tarmac and good on the smoother tracks, you can always let a little out if on real rough stuff.




Oooft, my fillings feel that!
There's some good evidence from Schwalbe of lower pressures being faster on anything other than billiard smooth new tarmac.
Such high pressures are old Roady and old technology tyre culture.



That's interesting - it's Schwalbe Nobby Nics I'm running front and rear. I use the bike mostly for my commute, but rarely felt the need to lower the pressure when off road. I guess the stuff I'm on in the hills is not technical enough for me to notice and I've found the high pressures to be fine.

I'm willing to give it a try though. What pressure do you suggest?
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Re: What bike do I need?

Postby rockhopper » Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:29 pm

matt_outandabout wrote:There's some good evidence from Schwalbe of lower pressures being faster on anything other than billiard smooth new tarmac.
Such high pressures are old Roady and old technology tyre culture.

For the MTB even on rougher ground, I still tend to go with a mid range of about 45-50 although may go lower if very rough. Better grip when lower, which helps the tyres to bite on the ascents and grip when descending, but more rolling resistance. I'm still using inner tubes and am always concerned about pinch punctures if the pressure is too low. Think that the more modern tubeless tyres can be run on lower pressures though but haven't looked into them so far.
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Re: What bike do I need?

Postby mproudfoot » Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:41 pm

My mtb is mainly used for hill approaches, and I try and get in a 20-25mi midweek ride each week outside of winter (to sustain a reasonable amount of bike fitness), and within 2 weeks of getting it, had two separate punctures (thorns/needles). I changed the tyres to Schwalbe Marathon Plus Smartguard tyres (2.1 x 29") and they've been flawless on every ride, and in the two years since putting them on, not a single puncture (touch wood). I generally keep them at 40psi (seems about as high as they will go), as I'm a heavier rider, but the only time I wish I had just gone with a lower tyre pressure was my second ride out to Culra from Dalwhinnie last December, when the ice on the last few miles of path resulted in very little traction, and some hairy moments (my hill buddy came off his bike three times on the ride in). I've done a lot of reading up on the ins and outs of tubeless, tubed (and the different tube materials), low vs higher pressures, and people can make a case for every single one of those, but I just found that once I'd found a tyre and pressure that worked for me, I stuck with it.
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