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Mini simple gps

Re: Mini simple gps

Postby prog99 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:25 pm

AyrshireAlps wrote:
but my phone is unworkable up a Munro when it's cold and p***ing with rain,


Why? Is it an iPhone?

And even then thats a sweeping generalisation. Mines fully waterproof and holds an excellent charge. Before I used waterproof pouches that worked as long as they didn't get punctured.
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Re: Mini simple gps

Postby prog99 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:28 pm

DopeyLoser wrote:Just a suggestion that if you do go for a second hand unit be careful of what you might be getting. I have a original Etrex that I would not even try to sell because only about 25% of the pixels still light up and its computer interface is RS232C serial cable. On the other hand it looks like there are occasionally some modern Etrex units on Gumtree for a fair price.

I used mine with a usb->serial convertor and it worked fine. I'll see if my garmin still works, did last time I checked (only needs 2 aaa batteries)
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Re: Mini simple gps

Postby AyrshireAlps » Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:37 pm

prog99 wrote:
AyrshireAlps wrote:
but my phone is unworkable up a Munro when it's cold and p***ing with rain,


Why? Is it an iPhone?

And even then thats a sweeping generalisation. Mines fully waterproof and holds an excellent charge. Before I used waterproof pouches that worked as long as they didn't get punctured.


Lol, I'll admit to it being a tad tongue in cheek, although I had 4 iPhones that all went into protection mode when cold, so not really untrue as such...

I am genuinely wondering why you can't use a phone in rain and cold though, I do it all the time.
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Re: Mini simple gps

Postby WalkWithWallace » Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:48 am

AyrshireAlps wrote:I am genuinely wondering why you can't use a phone in rain and cold though, I do it all the time.


Same, my phone was soaked last Friday in the rain, but I still navigated off the claggy summit of Beinn a'Choin with ViewRanger. although I did have to clear rain water off the screen a couple of times so the screen functioned correctly.

Locus Pro cleverly works behind the lock screen, so you only have to wake your phone up to get your location. 8)
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Re: Mini simple gps

Postby MRG1 » Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:18 pm

WalkWithWallace wrote:
AyrshireAlps wrote:I am genuinely wondering why you can't use a phone in rain and cold though, I do it all the time.


Same, my phone was soaked last Friday in the rain, but I still navigated off the claggy summit of Beinn a'Choin with ViewRanger. although I did have to clear rain water off the screen a couple of times so the screen functioned correctly.

Locus Pro cleverly works behind the lock screen, so you only have to wake your phone up to get your location. 8)


Agreed, I use my phone too.
It's not waterproof, I use one of those covers that keep the water out, yes it's a little annoying having to constantly wipe the screen to use it but it's perfectly functional.
My biggest concern / issue is that when navigating with it I use the lanyard around my neck and it swings around alot. Various solutions all have their problems.
I genuinely think that the general consensus is shifting towards phones, slowly but surely.
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Re: Mini simple gps

Postby WalkWithWallace » Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:52 pm

Mountaineering Scotland recently done a phone navigation survey, I hope they publish their findings.

As long as you've learnt to use a map and compass first and understand the caveats to mobile phone navigation, then I see no reason why you can't use a phone.

The problem is newbies going out using an app like Strava and just following a blue line with no real understanding of where they're going. It's also paramount to keep the phone mostly on flight mode to save battery.
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Re: Mini simple gps

Postby DopeyLoser » Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:05 pm

The OP (aldo_macb) was asking about a phone alternative due to problems with the phone in rain. I found that interesting because I also have problems using the phone to navigate in the rain, solely due to the touch sensitive screen being problematic when wet. The waterproofness of the phone is not an issue.

It's good to see some others are able to use their phones in the rain, but in my experience I have not found a way to do that without a lot of difficulty. To try to illustrate, here is my use case:

1. Bring phone out of pocket. It has a screen protector / shell. It is not in a waterproof case (yes I have tried that: bulky, and tactility is still not good through its cover, plus brightness suffers).

2. Phone is likely to be smeared with water. Maybe wipe it on something but since every stitch of clothing is wet, the screen will still be smeared with water. Lean over phone to try to stop rain from falling onto it.

3. Swipe to get unlock screen. Multiple attempts could be needed because screen and fingers are wet.

4. Drag pattern to enter unlock code. Multiple attempts could be needed. (Do I need to lock my phone, maybe not, but this would not be an issue if screen was dry.)

5. Now phone is unlocked. Swipe down to get to Location button to press it to switch Location on. (Do I need to have Location off? Maybe not but I figure constant GPS location fixes are a battery drain so I keep it off unless I need a fix.) This swiping down may or may not work first time due to screen and my fingers being wet.

6. Now you might be at your navigation app. My old phone's map would bounce around when rain drops fell on it, but my new phone is better. Still, using it is difficult.

I think you'll have the idea by now.

Compare to using GPS, here is the procedure:

1. Press the button to switch on the GPS. End of use case.

For a recent trip I did get a second hand Garmin 64st thinking maybe I'd use that instead of phone, since it would work well in rain, and could have maps, and battery life could be better. But in the end the convenience of the phone app and maps won out and instead of carrying the weight of the GPS I carried the weight of a small battery pack. Of course I would always have been carrying a phone in any case for phone calls, email etc.

My current working method is: keep a largish plastic bag handy so the phone can be kept dry inside it, and even operated inside it, while staying mostly dry. Not a great solution to be honest but works to some extent and costs nothing.

What might be interesting could be:
- voice control of phone without touching screen: could that work?
- buttons for phone e.g. see dimple.io: could that work? Might be worth spending a small amount of cash to try it.

On the other hand, if someone knows how to operate a touch screen for a phone while it is smeared with water, I'd be interested to find out how to do that.
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Re: Mini simple gps

Postby AyrshireAlps » Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:34 pm

Phone is likely to be smeared with water.


Its not really that often that rain comes straight down, ie no wind. Turn your back to wind, or use phone inside your jacket. Even at that, my phone works fine when the screen is wet, nothing special, a reconditioned S10. I use a screen protector, maybe that helps.

I always have OS app open where I'm starting, as I've generally downloaded the relevant map.
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Re: Mini simple gps

Postby WalkWithWallace » Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:53 pm

AyrshireAlps wrote:Its not really that often that rain comes straight down, ie no wind. Turn your back to wind, or use phone inside your jacket. Even at that, my phone works fine when the screen is wet, nothing special, a reconditioned S10. I use a screen protector, maybe that helps.


This and or hold the phone vertical so rain doesn't collect on the screen.

I leave locate constantly on, but as always flight mode is key! A phone will easily last a whole weekend on flight mode.
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Re: Mini simple gps

Postby MRG1 » Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:52 pm

WalkWithWallace wrote:Mountaineering Scotland recently done a phone navigation survey, I hope they publish their findings.

As long as you've learnt to use a map and compass first and understand the caveats to mobile phone navigation, then I see no reason why you can't use a phone.

The problem is newbies going out using an app like Strava and just following a blue line with no real understanding of where they're going. It's also paramount to keep the phone mostly on flight mode to save battery.


I bet the survey results would make for interesting reading.
I'd agree about having the map and compass skills first.
I've tried the "strictly following a GPX track / must stay on this damned line" method and it's nearly impossible to carry off.
As well as being near impossible I think it also creates a distraction that could, potentially, be dangerous.
So I've settled on using my phone in pretty much the same way I'd use a map and compass with the added benefit of knowing my exact location.

I'd strongly second your the airplane mode thing.
I do a fair bit of walking with a Rambler's group that run multiple walks on the same day so communication is paramount , therefore I often just switch my data off. It seems to be an ok compromise.
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Re: Mini simple gps

Postby MRG1 » Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:05 pm

DopeyLoser wrote:The OP (aldo_macb) was asking about a phone alternative due to problems with the phone in rain. I found that interesting because I also have problems using the phone to navigate in the rain, solely due to the touch sensitive screen being problematic when wet. The waterproofness of the phone is not an issue.

It's good to see some others are able to use their phones in the rain, but in my experience I have not found a way to do that without a lot of difficulty. To try to illustrate, here is my use case:

1. Bring phone out of pocket. It has a screen protector / shell. It is not in a waterproof case (yes I have tried that: bulky, and tactility is still not good through its cover, plus brightness suffers).

2. Phone is likely to be smeared with water. Maybe wipe it on something but since every stitch of clothing is wet, the screen will still be smeared with water. Lean over phone to try to stop rain from falling onto it.

3. Swipe to get unlock screen. Multiple attempts could be needed because screen and fingers are wet.

4. Drag pattern to enter unlock code. Multiple attempts could be needed. (Do I need to lock my phone, maybe not, but this would not be an issue if screen was dry.)

5. Now phone is unlocked. Swipe down to get to Location button to press it to switch Location on. (Do I need to have Location off? Maybe not but I figure constant GPS location fixes are a battery drain so I keep it off unless I need a fix.) This swiping down may or may not work first time due to screen and my fingers being wet.

6. Now you might be at your navigation app. My old phone's map would bounce around when rain drops fell on it, but my new phone is better. Still, using it is difficult.

I think you'll have the idea by now.

Compare to using GPS, here is the procedure:

1. Press the button to switch on the GPS. End of use case.

For a recent trip I did get a second hand Garmin 64st thinking maybe I'd use that instead of phone, since it would work well in rain, and could have maps, and battery life could be better. But in the end the convenience of the phone app and maps won out and instead of carrying the weight of the GPS I carried the weight of a small battery pack. Of course I would always have been carrying a phone in any case for phone calls, email etc.

My current working method is: keep a largish plastic bag handy so the phone can be kept dry inside it, and even operated inside it, while staying mostly dry. Not a great solution to be honest but works to some extent and costs nothing.

What might be interesting could be:
- voice control of phone without touching screen: could that work?
- buttons for phone e.g. see dimple.io: could that work? Might be worth spending a small amount of cash to try it.

On the other hand, if someone knows how to operate a touch screen for a phone while it is smeared with water, I'd be interested to find out how to do that.


Dare I say: don't go out when it's raining.
:lol:

Seriously though, have you considered deactivating the unlock code before a walk? That would help remove a stage.

My understanding is that leaving the GPS on doesn't drain any extra battery (or very little extra), it only ever drains when an app is making use of it.
So unless you're recording a track with your phone it should be fine to leave your GPS on.

Ironically I've found that the use of a proper waterproof cover slightly reduces the sensitivity of my touchscreen so I can use it fairly easily with a few smears of water on the cover.
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Re: Mini simple gps

Postby motorlaunch » Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:26 am

Booga wrote:Garmin used to do some small yellow units, they probably turn up cheap on ebay now.

There were two yellow units the Etrex and the later Etrex H. The H model was better and can still be found on ebay.
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