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Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby Rudolph » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:08 pm

NickScots wrote:Synthetic down jacket
4 Season Sleeping bag
Spare fleece
2 Glowsticks
Head torch, UCO Candle
2 Man Mountain tent

.....more in winter.

Some odd things I noticed in addition to what has been said about duplicating tents /bags etc.

head torch, candles and glow sticks???
A four season sleeping bag when it is not winter? along with a spare fleece and a synthetic down jacket?

You don't say what kind of tent, sleeping bag and synthetic down jacket you take. You can save a huge amount of weight and bulk depending on the spec of your choice here. I'd always choose proper (not synthetic) down jackets and sleeeping bags. Also a mountain tent (if you mean something like a Terra Nova Quazar) is IMHO over engineered for routine camping in the hills.
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Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby NickScots » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:40 pm

Michael Thomson wrote:
NickScots wrote: I don't think I'm carrying too much, just that you and others are not carrying enough. Even the DofE Kit list is longer than mine, some kit shared.


I'd have to disagree. You've got a tent and a bothy bag and a survival bag and a sleeping bag. Why take two things that perform the same role? Carrying stuff 'just in case' is fine, but why spend the day slogging about with a big pack full of stuff you won't use? I'd rather take what I need and camp on the third summit of the day rather than still be slogging up the first.
I don't see how can say I don't carry enough, if I can go and camp on a mountain top and then come home again perfectly safely and have camped in comfort then I've got what I need. IMO, the DofE would be the last source for info I'd use for reducing pack weight or bulk. Chris's weight and load is fine for a 5 day trip, but I'd sure as hell would not be shouldering 18kg for one night, and neither would Chris.

I don't want to get off the topic, which is rucksacks and I'm certainly not going to be all evangelical and anal about weights. All I'm saying is that you can get an overnight load that's less than 50L and 10kg pretty easily without having to cut the end off your toothbrush and lace your boots with dental floss.


So where's your one night high tops wild camp kit list then ?

.......You've got a tent and a bothy bag and a survival bag and a sleeping bag. Why take two things that perform the same role?.....

They don't perform the same role. That's why I take them. You have to be prepared for a night out, even if you are not planning to camp out.

It's a pity you take a dim view of DofE Kit lists. They are based on Eric Langmuir's teachings.
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Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby NickScots » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:42 pm

Rudolph wrote:
NickScots wrote:Synthetic down jacket
4 Season Sleeping bag
Spare fleece
2 Glowsticks
Head torch, UCO Candle
2 Man Mountain tent

.....more in winter.

Some odd things I noticed in addition to what has been said about duplicating tents /bags etc.

head torch, candles and glow sticks???
A four season sleeping bag when it is not winter? along with a spare fleece and a synthetic down jacket?

You don't say what kind of tent, sleeping bag and synthetic down jacket you take. You can save a huge amount of weight and bulk depending on the spec of your choice here. I'd always choose proper (not synthetic) down jackets and sleeeping bags. Also a mountain tent (if you mean something like a Terra Nova Quazar) is IMHO over engineered for routine camping in the hills.


Have you ever camped high in Scotland in Summer ? You can get frosts and high winds.

This is not about what I take but what rucksac was best for a wild camping night out. :roll:
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Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby NickScots » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:18 pm

PS the review is for a Multi Day wild camping trip.

.......A frame adds weight, complexity and cost and can affect the natural movement of the body, but when carrying a fully-loaded rucksack at the beginning of a multi-day wild camping expedition most would consider it a price worth paying. In this review I’ll be looking at a selection of rucksacks that are ideal for such a trip.......
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Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby Rudolph » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:04 pm

NickScots wrote:Have you ever camped high in Scotland in Summer ? You can get frosts and high winds. :

Yes - I wouldn't have dared add to the debate if I hadn't. As it happens I've used much the same kit for early spring high up in Scotland but will generally be a bit more careful about the forecasts and choice of camp site. A PD 400 bag is fine for temperatures down to -5 - and a lot lower if you have a down jacket as well.

NickScots wrote: This is not about what I take but what rucksac was best for a wild camping night out.

True enough, but you did say that you thought we didn't take enough and there have been a few responses showing how one can be just as safe and well prepared by taking less ; with a few suggestions as to which stuff could be jettisoned without loss of functionality. You also raised the issue as to whether you took too much and then gave a full gear list as well as asking to see others'.

Sorry If this is not helpful to you but maybe someone else can benefit from reading both sides of the debate. And some gear nerds love to compare gear lists given any opportunity. :)
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Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby Michael Thomson » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:30 pm

NickScots wrote:So where's your one night high tops wild camp kit list then ?

They don't perform the same role. That's why I take them. You have to be prepared for a night out, even if you are not planning to camp out.

It's a pity you take a dim view of DofE Kit lists. They are based on Eric Langmuir's teachings.


My kit list changes almost every time I go out. Last weeks list was in a 45L sack and comprised of this from what I recall:

Power Lizard Tent
Sphere spring bag
X-therm mat
Alpkit Gamma and e-lite+
Reactor stove, firesteel and gas
Cup, spoon, food
Down jacket, hat, down socks
Synthetic mitts and liner gloves
Camera, tripod
Map, compass
Water bottle, Pee bottle
Axe, crampons, trail blaze poles

Being prepared for an unexpected benightment isn't the issue if you've already got a tent and sleeping bag in your pack. I can understand taking a survival bag for a day trip, not for an overnighter when you've got a much more comfortable way to survive the night in your pack already!

I have nothing against Eric Langmuir or his guidance, however I do think the DofE kitlists are made to meet a specific requirement set which may not tie in with the individuals needs or preferences based on their own experience.

You do seem to be a wee bit defensive about this whole topic, and like Rudolph says you kind of brought it up so I'm confused by that response.
Anyhoo, I'll give up debating and finish with this: carry what you like, it's your call after all.
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Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby NickScots » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:49 pm

Michael Thomson wrote:Power Lizard Tent
Sphere spring bag
X-therm mat
Alpkit Gamma and e-lite+
Reactor stove, firesteel and gas
Cup, spoon, food
Down jacket, hat, down socks
Synthetic mitts and liner gloves
Camera, tripod
Map, compass
Water bottle, Pee bottle
Axe, crampons, trail blaze poles


No toilet or wash kit ? Lots of folk forget to weigh their water, certainly adds weight.

I prefer to carry what I carry through selection from trial and error over the years, but would rather be more comfortable and better prepared than some, that's my choice.

My pack is a Karimor 1989, 65+10 Alpiniste. In this pic.http://flic.kr/p/dqjhct
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Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby mrssanta » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:14 pm

I carry a toothbrush and a tiny tube of toothpaste, but don't bother with washing or clean clothes (apart from socks), can take alcohol gel for hands if you want but I'm a mucky pup and never ill. Makes you appreciate your bath when you get home.
if you really need a wash, can always boil up some water and use a sock as a flannel but brrrrrr why bother for a few days. when I was little bathing once a week was considered plenty.
I do however sometimes take a small microfibre cloth. it is very handy for soaking up water when it has been really really wet and everything is sodden.
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Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby Border Reiver » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:34 am

Younger people can get away with carrying a lot more weight (maybe too much, maybe not) than older folk.
I can get everything I need for a couple of summer nights into and onto my most comfortable rucksack (35 lit), but in my early 20's I carried way too much weight - but never noticed it.
In 1977, my brother and I walked from Blair Atholl to Glenmore (4 days & 3nights). I had an external frame nylon rucksack and my brother used our Dad's frameless canvas sack and it had thick leather shoulder straps.
Our 2 man tent had a thick plastic groundsheet and plastic windows, with tubular steel poles and we had pure wool army surplus sleeping bags which caused me to itch all night long. We carried fresh meat & potatoes for the first night, bacon, eggs, sausages cheese & lots of tins of food & packets of biscuits. We had tea bags and we carried fresh milk, which went more and more off each day that scorching hot May. It was too rancid for us to consider using on the last morning.
We had jeans, wooly jumpers and had nylon cagoules which were useful for keeping off the sun after we got burnt. A great adventure & we did most things wrong (other than navigation), but we survived. These days, I never carry anything I wouldn't need - my back and legs couldn't cope.
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Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby Gable Gable End » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:20 am

I love the exos 46. Great rucksack and carries all of my stuff comfortably for winter weekenders and will be used for two weeks on TGOC this year.

Light, rugged and plenty of good functionality.
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Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby Michael Thomson » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:50 am

NickScots wrote:No toilet or wash kit ? Lots of folk forget to weigh their water, certainly adds weight.

I prefer to carry what I carry through selection from trial and error over the years, but would rather be more comfortable and better prepared than some, that's my choice.

My pack is a Karimor 1989, 65+10 Alpiniste. In this pic.http://flic.kr/p/dqjhct


My wash kit is a couple of wipes and a toothbrush and paste. I use the same trial and error approach, but I like to mix it up with new kit regularly, because that way I can find new and better options, so my standard kit list is constantly evolving.

The Alpiniste is an absolute classic. Mike Parsons is a legend.
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Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby NickScots » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:01 pm

Border Reiver wrote:Younger people can get away with carrying a lot more weight (maybe too much, maybe not) than older folk.
I can get everything I need for a couple of summer nights into and onto my most comfortable rucksack (35 lit), but in my early 20's I carried way too much weight - but never noticed it.
In 1977, my brother and I walked from Blair Atholl to Glenmore (4 days & 3nights). I had an external frame nylon rucksack and my brother used our Dad's frameless canvas sack and it had thick leather shoulder straps.
Our 2 man tent had a thick plastic groundsheet and plastic windows, with tubular steel poles and we had pure wool army surplus sleeping bags which caused me to itch all night long. We carried fresh meat & potatoes for the first night, bacon, eggs, sausages cheese & lots of tins of food & packets of biscuits. We had tea bags and we carried fresh milk, which went more and more off each day that scorching hot May. It was too rancid for us to consider using on the last morning.
We had jeans, wooly jumpers and had nylon cagoules which were useful for keeping off the sun after we got burnt. A great adventure & we did most things wrong (other than navigation), but we survived. These days, I never carry anything I wouldn't need - my back and legs couldn't cope.


Sounds like a trip fro the 'Boys Own Manual', or was it Companion, can't remember. I think we get soft as we get older.

We did my Scouts 6 Mile hike in the 80s at Loch Lednock. We got lost in mist going over the hills, forgot toilet paper and had to use the wrapper of the burger tin, forgot meths to preheat the Paraffin Primus stove....

We had old brown canvas rucksacs with leather shoulder straps, but had fun. The orange triangular Force Ten tents were excellent though.
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Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby NickScots » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:08 pm

Michael Thomson wrote:The Alpiniste is an absolute classic. Mike Parsons is a legend.


Apart from the straps cover feathering at the edges and the PU coating coming off on the inside, it's still in perfect working order. My only criticism is that snow gets into the strap buckles and then stops the buckles clicking together.

I have bought some Karrimor stuff recently, owned by Sports Direct now. I think the original company is now Karimor SF who are military specialists. That SF kit looks excellent.
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Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby Border Reiver » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:40 pm

NickScots wrote:
Sounds like a trip fro the 'Boys Own Manual', or was it Companion, can't remember. I think we get soft as we get older.

Not sure about getting soft, but us older one's joints have had many more miles of pounding the hills and carrying loads and wear and tear begins to show.
The benefit of being older is that we've probably made all the usual mistakes and learned that it isn't necessary to carry all the stuff we used to. We are hopefully wise enough to not carry multiple forms of anything where only one is necessary and not to carry anything we don't really need. Years of experience has taught us that we can still safely go out into the hills, travel light and enjoy the experience as much as we did when we were younger.
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Re: Gear review: Rucksacks for wild camping

Postby tenohfive » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:50 am

Quick bump. I'm reconsidering rucksacks for wild camping - including winter. I've tried the Osprey Kestrel 68 and it's very comfortable and seems to get good reviews, and as such it was top of my wish list. But I'm reconsidering the Exos 58 instead. Assuming I can find somewhere to try it on (or copy Rockhopper, order both and send back the one I don't want.)

Has anyone used the Exos 58 for wild camping in winter? Does it have the room for the extra gear for multi-day trips and the durability, or is it more of a 3 season bag?
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