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GPS or Smartphone?

Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby PerthAlly » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:52 pm

Essan wrote:No, I just use a paper map. The battery in that lasts for years ;)


Love it Essan! :lol:

Having 2 eyes an a brain helps too.....
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Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby Alastair S » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:55 pm

I've used a phone & ViewRanger for several years now and for hill walking it's been brilliant.

However I'm more into mountain biking at these days and the limitations of this combo is more apparent. The problem being that when you are under tree cover the phone often loses track. So I've resorted to getting a dedicated GPS device for biking (a Garmin Edge 510) and it does a way more accurate job of tracking just where you are, no matter how much tree cover there is.

In short a dedicated GPS will do a more accurate job, but if you spend most of you time out on the hills in mainly open cover then a decent phone & ViewRanger (+ a spare battery & backup paper map of course) is more than enough.
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Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby rockhopper » Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:17 pm

I've only ever had basic phones before (the type you need to press a button several times to get each letter to text) and only recently got a smartphone. Initially it seemed great that it had a gps and could get 3g. However, whenever I have gps and data on, the battery seems to run down quickly so I can never really understand how people could use them on hills for long walks ? Suspect I'm missing something obvious here :crazy: even though I do have power saving settings on etc. The charge on the batteries of the basic phones lasts quite a long time but then I carry them switched off anyway so I tend to leave the smartphone behind now (it's also heavier and seems more fragile than the basic phones). I also never seem to get a signal anyway on most hills :crazy: - cheers :)
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Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby doggy » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:35 pm

tenohfive wrote:
doggy wrote:I had a S3 and now I've got Z1 but they can't compare to a real GPS.
Once you lose your phone signal you lose the GPS too,


Nope. If you've got offline maps (which all decent mapping software allows for) you've still got maps irrespective of whether or not you've got phone signal. Once a map is downloaded (i.e. at home) it's always available.

I'm all for debate about the relative merits incidentally, it's just that the quoted statement is factually incorrect.


You lose the GPS on both the phones I've had. The GPS is not true GPS, it's aquired via the data so no data no GPS.
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Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby prog99 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:56 pm

Most phones have a proper GPS in them nowadays so data/phone signal not needed.
As i generally only use it to double check a grid reference I keep it off for hill walks until needed and with memory map I have the maps locally stored.
A warning for those who are maybe a wee bit attached to their devices though. Theres a bug in memory map that I've seen in both android and iphone versions where it occasionally doesnt plot your grid reference on the right point on the map (grid reference itself was correct).
I'll try and dig out the screenshots I have showing it, might be a rounding error in the calculation.
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Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby tenohfive » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:49 pm

doggy wrote:
tenohfive wrote:
doggy wrote:I had a S3 and now I've got Z1 but they can't compare to a real GPS.
Once you lose your phone signal you lose the GPS too,


Nope. If you've got offline maps (which all decent mapping software allows for) you've still got maps irrespective of whether or not you've got phone signal. Once a map is downloaded (i.e. at home) it's always available.

I'm all for debate about the relative merits incidentally, it's just that the quoted statement is factually incorrect.


You lose the GPS on both the phones I've had. The GPS is not true GPS, it's aquired via the data so no data no GPS.


I'm sorry but that's just wrong. I've got two S3's in my house and the phone in my pocket is an Xperia Z1. I have used all 3 (and others) in the hills. Please don't take offence, but I'd suggest it's a case of user error on your part as it's unlikely both the phones you mentioned have defective GPS units.

The GPS is in no way dependant on the data. It is true GPS, mobile data can't pinpoint your location in any case (only into a block of a few kilometres) and I specifically turn mobile data off whilst in the hills as it saves battery life - the GPS, 100%, unequivocally, still works, with various app's and pinpointing a precise location to within a few feet - something mobile data simply can't do. But I've an inkling that I can see where the confusion is coming from.

What app's have you been using, and how? If it's Viewranger, read on...

Viewranger is the most commonly mentioned on here, and does allow you to use the free (and very good) Open Street Maps Cycle Map. And as standard it'll be the online version, which could explain why you've had issues - you'll need to download specifically the area you want ahead of time (at home normally) where you've got a wifi or mobile data signal. I've got most of the Lake District saved in this way, it takes a little bit of preparation but it's worth it as it does show some tracks on there that aren't marked on OS maps. If you don't do this though it'll try and source them for wherever you are through your mobile data connection, and as such if you have none you'll probably just see a blank map.

The second (slightly easier) option is paid for Ordnance Survey maps for Viewranger. You can download them through the website, but places like this one do them much cheaper (£9 for Landranger maps for all UK national parks) - they send you the memory card, you copy it onto your PC then across to your phone, register the map and you've got offline OS maps. What you see on your screen is an OS map and this will work irrespective of any phone signal. This is my preferred option - I default to OS maps with the Open Streetmap as a secondary.

There are of course plenty of mapping apps that have the option to store areas offline (even Google Maps) and your GPS will then work when using them offline.

I have to say though, I spend more time on Viewranger poring over maps when I'm bored and planning my next trip than I do actually using it to locate myself.

Hope some of this helps - and if you're using something else, let us know what and I'll be glad to try and help work out where you've had the issues (if one of the other Android using hillwalkers on here doesn't sort it first.)
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Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby golfpunk » Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:57 pm

tenohfive wrote:I'm sorry but that's just wrong. I've got two S3's in my house and the phone in my pocket is an Xperia Z1. I have used all 3 (and others) in the hills. Please don't take offence, but I'd suggest it's a case of user error on your part as it's unlikely both the phones you mentioned have defective GPS units.

The GPS is in no way dependant on the data. It is true GPS, mobile data can't pinpoint your location in any case (only into a block of a few kilometres) and I specifically turn mobile data off whilst in the hills as it saves battery life - the GPS, 100%, unequivocally, still works, with various app's and pinpointing a precise location to within a few feet - something mobile data simply can't do. But I've an inkling that I can see where the confusion is coming from.

What app's have you been using, and how? If it's Viewranger, read on...

Viewranger is the most commonly mentioned on here, and does allow you to use the free (and very good) Open Street Maps Cycle Map. And as standard it'll be the online version, which could explain why you've had issues - you'll need to download specifically the area you want ahead of time (at home normally) where you've got a wifi or mobile data signal. I've got most of the Lake District saved in this way, it takes a little bit of preparation but it's worth it as it does show some tracks on there that aren't marked on OS maps. If you don't do this though it'll try and source them for wherever you are through your mobile data connection, and as such if you have none you'll probably just see a blank map.

The second (slightly easier) option is paid for Ordnance Survey maps for Viewranger. You can download them through the website, but places like this one do them much cheaper (£9 for Landranger maps for all UK national parks) - they send you the memory card, you copy it onto your PC then across to your phone, register the map and you've got offline OS maps. What you see on your screen is an OS map and this will work irrespective of any phone signal. This is my preferred option - I default to OS maps with the Open Streetmap as a secondary.

There are of course plenty of mapping apps that have the option to store areas offline (even Google Maps) and your GPS will then work when using them offline.

I have to say though, I spend more time on Viewranger poring over maps when I'm bored and planning my next trip than I do actually using it to locate myself.

Hope some of this helps - and if you're using something else, let us know what and I'll be glad to try and help work out where you've had the issues (if one of the other Android using hillwalkers on here doesn't sort it first.)


before I go ahead and purchase that memory card can I ask a stupid question? when they say all GB national parks - will that cover all of the scottish munro's?

seems like a great deal.
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Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby Gythral » Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:06 pm

golfpunk wrote:
before I go ahead and purchase that memory card can I ask a stupid question? when they say all GB national parks - will that cover all of the scottish munro's?

seems like a great deal.


No the National Park maps do not cover all the Munros , not 100& if they are all in this Northern Scotland one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Viewranger-GP ... 4ad9b005e1
as I cant find where the split is.
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Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby stevesey » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:48 pm

tenohfive wrote:
doggy wrote:
tenohfive wrote:Nope. If you've got offline maps (which all decent mapping software allows for) you've still got maps irrespective of whether or not you've got phone signal. Once a map is downloaded (i.e. at home) it's always available.

I'm all for debate about the relative merits incidentally, it's just that the quoted statement is factually incorrect.


You lose the GPS on both the phones I've had. The GPS is not true GPS, it's aquired via the data so no data no GPS.


I'm sorry but that's just wrong. I've got two S3's in my house and the phone in my pocket is an Xperia Z1. I have used all 3 (and others) in the hills. Please don't take offence, but I'd suggest it's a case of user error on your part as it's unlikely both the phones you mentioned have defective GPS units.

The GPS is in no way dependant on the data. It is true GPS, mobile data can't pinpoint your location in any case (only into a block of a few kilometres) and I specifically turn mobile data off whilst in the hills as it saves battery life - the GPS, 100%, unequivocally, still works, with various app's and pinpointing a precise location to within a few feet - something mobile data simply can't do. But I've an inkling that I can see where the confusion is coming from.

What app's have you been using, and how? If it's Viewranger, read on...

Viewranger is the most commonly mentioned on here, and does allow you to use the free (and very good) Open Street Maps Cycle Map. And as standard it'll be the online version, which could explain why you've had issues - you'll need to download specifically the area you want ahead of time (at home normally) where you've got a wifi or mobile data signal. I've got most of the Lake District saved in this way, it takes a little bit of preparation but it's worth it as it does show some tracks on there that aren't marked on OS maps. If you don't do this though it'll try and source them for wherever you are through your mobile data connection, and as such if you have none you'll probably just see a blank map.

The second (slightly easier) option is paid for Ordnance Survey maps for Viewranger. You can download them through the website, but places like this one do them much cheaper (£9 for Landranger maps for all UK national parks) - they send you the memory card, you copy it onto your PC then across to your phone, register the map and you've got offline OS maps. What you see on your screen is an OS map and this will work irrespective of any phone signal. This is my preferred option - I default to OS maps with the Open Streetmap as a secondary.

There are of course plenty of mapping apps that have the option to store areas offline (even Google Maps) and your GPS will then work when using them offline.

I have to say though, I spend more time on Viewranger poring over maps when I'm bored and planning my next trip than I do actually using it to locate myself.

Hope some of this helps - and if you're using something else, let us know what and I'll be glad to try and help work out where you've had the issues (if one of the other Android using hillwalkers on here doesn't sort it first.)

What he said ^^ (although no OS maps yet :-) just ordered - ta for the linky - may as well get them at that price)

Personally I use a HTC Wildfire S as my GPS "phone" - in Airplane mode (so all data/phone signals off) and again offline OpenCycleMap (most of national parks etc downloaded) . Extended (cheap ebay) battery as well and last trip out I got 11 hours of it (a 10 peak day). Have an original yellow etrex as well but may stop carrying that soon - as my real Phone also has Viewranger and the same pre-loaded maps.
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Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby malky_c » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:58 pm

rockhopper wrote:I've only ever had basic phones before (the type you need to press a button several times to get each letter to text) and only recently got a smartphone. Initially it seemed great that it had a gps and could get 3g. However, whenever I have gps and data on, the battery seems to run down quickly so I can never really understand how people could use them on hills for long walks ? Suspect I'm missing something obvious here :crazy: even though I do have power saving settings on etc. The charge on the batteries of the basic phones lasts quite a long time but then I carry them switched off anyway so I tend to leave the smartphone behind now (it's also heavier and seems more fragile than the basic phones). I also never seem to get a signal anyway on most hills :crazy: - cheers :)

I have the same problem with battery life, which is why I don't use my phone to navigate (I'm also too cheap to buy a dedicated GPS unit, so happy to stick to maps and compass). I don't have any maps downloaded, but I've sometimes switched on the GPS tracker in the mapmyrun app to produce a log of where I've been. Fine for a half day, but if I had it on for the 8+ hours that I like to walk for, there wouldn't be any charge left for making calls! So definitely out of the question for a multi-day trip. As it is my phone mostly stays in the bottom of the bag switched off. I used to leave it in the car or at home quite often, but my wife is quite keen on getting an update from me, and there's normally more chance of a signal higher up than at the car.
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Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby tenohfive » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:52 pm

Something to keep in mind is that smartphone batteries deteriorate over time. If the phone you're using is over 18 months old then a replacement battery may solve some of your problems, and you'll find it holding charge longer. And you can get very cheap battery packs - I've heard good things about Anker ones such as this one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Extern ... ttery+pack
122g and 5600mah - so you should get 3 full charges out of it.
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Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby PScottMc » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:30 pm

Having your phone signal on or off won't affect your actual GPS. Phones use the same GPS system as dedicated GPS units such as Garmin. The problem with phones is they'll generally use a less expensive GPS chip than a dedicated unit and also the phones casing can affect the signal accuracy. A lot of phones also use the GLONASS system with further increases the accuracy. With a high end smartphone and being out in the open accuracy shouldn't be an issue.
Having mobile data on, and if the phone supports, it will us A-GPS whichh uses phone masts to get a quicker fix on your position.
Based on how much a stand alone unit costs I'd stick with the phone every day of the week. Just don't forget the power bank.
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Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby harry hill » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:30 pm

PScottMc wrote:A lot of phones also use the GLONASS system with further increases the accuracy. With a high end smartphone and being out in the open accuracy shouldn't be an issue.


Worth bearing in mind when getting a new smartphone. A google search will let you check which phones support GLONASS. I have an S4 Active, and have found it to be extremely accurate. I have considered a dedicated GPS in the past, but don't see the point now.
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Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby stevesey » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:15 pm

malky_c wrote:
rockhopper wrote:I've only ever had basic phones before (the type you need to press a button several times to get each letter to text) and only recently got a smartphone. Initially it seemed great that it had a gps and could get 3g. However, whenever I have gps and data on, the battery seems to run down quickly so I can never really understand how people could use them on hills for long walks ? Suspect I'm missing something obvious here :crazy: even though I do have power saving settings on etc. The charge on the batteries of the basic phones lasts quite a long time but then I carry them switched off anyway so I tend to leave the smartphone behind now (it's also heavier and seems more fragile than the basic phones). I also never seem to get a signal anyway on most hills :crazy: - cheers :)

I have the same problem with battery life, which is why I don't use my phone to navigate (I'm also too cheap to buy a dedicated GPS unit, so happy to stick to maps and compass). I don't have any maps downloaded, but I've sometimes switched on the GPS tracker in the mapmyrun app to produce a log of where I've been. Fine for a half day, but if I had it on for the 8+ hours that I like to walk for, there wouldn't be any charge left for making calls! So definitely out of the question for a multi-day trip. As it is my phone mostly stays in the bottom of the bag switched off. I used to leave it in the car or at home quite often, but my wife is quite keen on getting an update from me, and there's normally more chance of a signal higher up than at the car.

Basic battery saving measures help - mainly turning of the radios and screen as much as possible (as others have said). When walking I have the screen timeout set to min (need brightness quite high outdoors so dimming that isn't much help). Bluetooth, Wifi and mobile data should be off - and if you are out of signal range anyway just put the phone in airplane mode (already covered). My HTC WiIdlfire will hold full charge for a week in airplane mode sat on the desk with the screen off.

I have a high capacity battery can can get over 11 hours with GPS on in airplane mode and even with data and phone signal on have got 8.5 hours.

Even in the rucksack and switched off (with viewranger and offline maps sorted) it's a useful backup for when the cloud comes down in unfamiliar territory - probably the best way to use one on a multi-day trip - unless you buy one of these - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141138650816?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT :-)
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Re: GPS or Smartphone?

Postby Avocetboy » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:27 pm

Samsung s5 and view ranger. Switch phone to ultra battery saving mode and it lasts forever. Just use the gps when you need it. Works for me.
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