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Outdoor Clothing Brands

Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby mikebeattie1 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:20 pm

wish i could give an honest reply to this but ive never been well of to be able to buy any big name brands if i want something the wife says ask santa for it mmmm but i think you pay for what you get i also think every dam thing is over priced
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Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby Shug » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:11 pm

Personally I think North face sucks and is more suited as a fashion label than an outdoor one, but then I've been tainted by bad experiences with their stuff.
I love my sherpa jacket, and my old berghaus one put in an impressive shift before I replaced it. The north face one has been on about 4 trips and will never get used again, not even just to travel to work in.
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Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby dav2930 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:56 pm

roytheboy wrote:... But when it comes to boots and shells etc., I do lots of research and usually find that lightness and effectiveness has to be paid for...let's say that I'm in the market for X, Y or Z product that has requirements beyond the basics of base- or mid-layers, and that I'm faced with a selection of sale or reduced items, all claiming to have different 'tech' to solve the same problems ... without doing loads of research (and many punters don't), which brands are more likely - on the face of it - to offer a better bang for my bucks than others?

If one is planning a trip to the Alps or Andes or Himalayas then I agree that the number of relevant brands for critical items is going to be narrowed down to a few top ones. For down jackets and sleeping bags my first choice would be Mountain Equipment, second choice Rab. Boots are more difficult. Scarpa, La Sportiva and Salomon are in the running for top performance but it's more important that you get the right boot for the right purpose, and the right fit for your feet. A boot that's suitable for Alpine ice climbing in Winter won't be suitable for summer hill walking in the UK, so for the latter purpose you'd probably be better off with a different brand altogether. As for 'waterproof' shells, a friend of mine used to go for the most expensive, triple layer Goretex available, until he found to his disgust that he still got wet in really heavy rain. So from then on he only bought cheap shells. Whatever the brand, however expensive, waterproofs are always a compromise between waterproofness and breathability. The more breathable, the less waterproof, and vice versa. If it's value for money you're after, you'll almost certainly do better with, say, Regatta, than with a top brand like Mountain Equipment.
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Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby tenohfive » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:28 pm

BobMcBob wrote:
roytheboy wrote:I maintain that in *general terms*, any item made by a premium brand should be superior to a budget brand (just as you would expect any Mercedes to be better designed and built than an equivalent Vauxhall, for example)


It depends on your definition of "superior". And that depends on what actually matters to you rather than what the brands tell us matters. So for me it's about suitability for the task. If I want to pose around and use a lot of fuel, I'd buy the Mercedes. if I want to go shopping, take rubbish to the tip, and generally have a vehicle that's useful to me, I'd buy the Vauxhall. It may not be better made, but it's a much better choice for the job and is therefore superior.


I see your point otherwise, but disagree here. The Mercedes may be over-specced for the task of taking rubbish to the tip but it'll still do it just fine. Both are equally suitable for that task. The fact that it can be used for posing may be used by some, may not be by others. But both are equally suitable for the basic task of tips and shopping runs. It's just that one is over-specced for that basic task. So whilst the lower outlay Vauxhall may be perfectly practical, if you've got the funds - or you want to pose, where posing is that 'extra' factor - is there any harm in having a little more?

That's part of the reason that I pay extra. Because whilst 95% of it's use will be for tip runs, from time to time I will use that extra performance and be that bit more comfortable. And it's my money, so why the hell not eh?
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Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby BobMcBob » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:41 pm

tenohfive wrote:And it's my money, so why the hell not eh?


A fool and his money are soon parted .. ;) You see I disagree that a Mercedes is suitable for taking rubbish to the tip. Do it a lot and you'll soon have trashed 35 grand's worth of car. Yes I do this a lot and I've trashed several .. well Volvos actually .. but they only cost me 800 quid apiece. 35 grand is a hell of an outlay for a trash wagon, which is why I wouldn't regard it as suitable for the task. Same reason I don't want to wear 300 quid's worth of waterproof clothing when I'm scrambling over sharp rocks or digging people's gardens - totally overspecced and a waste of money given how long it's going to last. What I'm trying to say is that *how* you're going to use something is the major factor when deciding if that something is worth buying.
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Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby tenohfive » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:28 pm

It sounds like you're clothing budget is probably still higher than mine Bob regardless of how expensive my stuff is, given how much of your stuff you wreck :wink:

I think we're stretching the metaphor a bit here. Long and the short of it for me is that great quality gear can do the things that good gear can, and a bit more besides. Might be slightly better, might be streets better, but I do believe that you pay for that extra. Buying savvily and being a bargain hunter helps massively though.

And unrelated but I'll take my German estate over my works Vauxhall s**tbox any day of the week, and happily pay the premium :)
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Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby roytheboy » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:05 pm

As you've collectively pushed my innocently-intended metaphor to it's limits, I'll add that I have a £35k Mercedes (to the penny, as it happens) that does everything from tip-runs on Sundays, to business meetings at swanky hotels, to very (very) fast runs on narrow country lanes, and for loading up with coal and logs in snow that stops most farmer's wagons - it does the lot exceptionally capably and posing is definitively not on that list of requirements. I bought the car because I wanted a car that would do everything well and I simply put a blanket down in the back when carrying coal, logs or stuff for the tip. So to extend my own analogy, if I may (not wanting to stray too far off topic, but what the hell: he started it!), a better brand *should*, if the world were a logically just place, be more capable and effective in a wider range of environments, for a greater variety of requirements. I'll stop at this point, before those few beers I had earlier threaten to dilute the point of my post ...which I've now forgotten ...parp!
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Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby BobMcBob » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:41 am

tenohfive wrote:It sounds like you're clothing budget is probably still higher than mine Bob regardless of how expensive my stuff is, given how much of your stuff you wreck :wink: )


I have to admit that I can claim it as a business expense :) I average one waterproof coat and 2 pairs of boots a year.

Anyway, I agree that the metaphor has been pushed entirely too far. I've even forgotten what point I was trying to make. Can you even take a Mercedes up a mountain? ;)
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Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby roytheboy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:43 am

BobMcBob wrote:Can you even take a Mercedes up a mountain? ;)


Ha ha; most definitely "yes", and I wrote all about it here, if you are the slightest bit interested > http://www.peacocksinmygarden.co.uk/blogs/travel/compact-suvs-any-good-snow/
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Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby BobMcBob » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:23 pm

roytheboy wrote:
BobMcBob wrote:Can you even take a Mercedes up a mountain? ;)


Ha ha; most definitely "yes", and I wrote all about it here, if you are the slightest bit interested > http://www.peacocksinmygarden.co.uk/blogs/travel/compact-suvs-any-good-snow/


Nice! Going for Clarkson's job were you? :D
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Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby roytheboy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:45 pm

BobMcBob wrote:Nice! Going for Clarkson's job were you? :D

Writing and editing copy is part of what I do for a living, and I enjoy introducing a bit of humourous imagery if I can. As for the car, I bought it confident that it would see us through the snowy winters on the mountainside where we live, yet all the reviewers who drove it on Portuguese or Spanish roads in the summer, said: "...of course it'll be no good off-road..." so I wanted to see if they were right. For serious off-roading you need more ground clearance than my AMG suspension has to offer, but for mud, snow and slippery slopes, which is what I need it to cope with, it is superb :)

...and this is where I came in. I know that if I buy a Merc - or a BMW or Audi, I suspect - it's likely to do a lot of things very well (tip runs included), but I don't yet know which of the outdoor clothing brands have an equally good reputation. There are for sure plenty of others who are equally as brand-unaware as me, so I thought I would prompt a list that might help those of us who don't know our Rab from our Hi-Gear. Okay, I'm not that naive but do you get my drift?
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Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby BobMcBob » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:24 pm

roytheboy wrote:
BobMcBob wrote:Nice! Going for Clarkson's job were you? :D

Writing and editing copy is part of what I do for a living, and I enjoy introducing a bit of humourous imagery if I can. As for the car, I bought it confident that it would see us through the snowy winters on the mountainside where we live, yet all the reviewers who drove it on Portuguese or Spanish roads in the summer, said: "...of course it'll be no good off-road..." so I wanted to see if they were right. For serious off-roading you need more ground clearance than my AMG suspension has to offer, but for mud, snow and slippery slopes, which is what I need it to cope with, it is superb :)

...and this is where I came in. I know that if I buy a Merc - or a BMW or Audi, I suspect - it's likely to do a lot of things very well (tip runs included), but I don't yet know which of the outdoor clothing brands have an equally good reputation. There are for sure plenty of others who are equally as brand-unaware as me, so I thought I would prompt a list that might help those of us who don't know our Rab from our Hi-Gear. Okay, I'm not that naive but do you get my drift?


I do get your drift. But I'm not sure you're helping yourself or others by trying to make such a list.

I was trying, via a somewhat tenuous link to a metaphor, to point out that brands are irrelevant. My day to day work is gardening. I wear a lot of outdoor gear. The boots I now choose to wear are in fact made by Hi-Gear. Had I listened to the consensus on brands I'd never have considered them. But they perform as well as, if not better than - over their useful lifespan (about 6 months) - anything I've worn by any of the supposedly "superior" brands. In fact the soles last longer than most other makes.

So let me try to rephrase what I'm saying. As I said earlier, I've had great gear from Mountain Warehouse and awful gear from Berghaus, and vice-versa. The best gear for you is the gear that suits your needs best. Price may or may not be a factor for you, but don't let some artificially concocted notion of 'brand quality' screw up your decision making or prevent you considering items that may be exactly what you need.
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Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby tenohfive » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:08 pm

I do think you're at risk of comparing apples with oranges there Bob. Durability appears to be a big consideration for you; given your intended use (work boots) that's understandable. But for my hillwalking requirements there are other, more important factors than just durability.

In relation to the 'suck it and see,' approach, there's merit in not dismissing something because it's cheap, or off the radar. But that's got to be balanced against the risk of finding out it's cheap for a reason. For me personally I'd rather buy too much rather than too little; I don't have the time or energy to be testing gear on my (relatively) rare visits to the hills. And I'll pay the premium for features I might not use as a consequence. Others adopt a different approach; there is no wrong answer.

Roy, all I will say about your mountain adventure is to give a thumbs up - put the right tyres on, combine them with a bit of experience and you can surprise a lot of people with preconceptions of RWD handling in the snow.

Having waffled at length on a tangent, to get back to the original point my three preferred clothing manufacturers are:

Arc'teryx.
Rab.
Montane.

The former I only own a handful of items by, but they beat everything else similar I own by other brands. They're just eye-wateringly expensive.
Rab just works for me, common enough to be in sales and easy to sift the technical from the everyday/cafe culture wear.
Montane is just good technical gear and it seems to fit me well.

Honourable mention to Under Armour - more an exercise than traditional outdoor clothing brand, but they do some excellent base layers.
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Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby roytheboy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:19 pm

tenohfive wrote:Roy, all I will say about your mountain adventure is to give a thumbs up - put the right tyres on, combine them with a bit of experience and you can surprise a lot of people with preconceptions of RWD handling in the snow.

The car's secret is some very sophisticated AWD tech. There's no way on earth it would have made it over the mountain with just RWD. :wink:
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Re: Outdoor Clothing Brands

Postby BobMcBob » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:58 pm

tenohfive wrote:I do think you're at risk of comparing apples with oranges there Bob. Durability appears to be a big consideration for you; given your intended use (work boots) that's understandable. But for my hillwalking requirements there are other, more important factors than just durability.


Right! So a 'good brand' for you may be a 'bad brand' for me. And vice versa. That's what I've been trying to say all along - apparently not very eloquently - it depends on what's important to you personally, not on what someone else thinks is good or what some marketing guy manages to make us think is important. I'll shut up now.
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